Flatfooted AC and Dex Penalty

[Hypersmurf]

An unarmoured character (Bob) with a Dex of 12 has a Dex Modifier to AC of +1. His Dex Bonus to AC is +1. He has no Dex Penalty to AC. His "standard" AC is 11.

An unarmoured character (Charlie) with a Dex of 8 has a Dex Modifier to AC of -1. His Dex Penalty to AC is -1. He has no Dex Bonus to AC. His "standard" AC is 9.

PHB p8 says "You apply your character's Dexterity modifier to AC, provided the character can react to the attack."

PHB p120 says "You can't use your Dex bonus to AC while flat-footed."

Glossary also says "Flat-footed creatures cannot use their Dex bonuses to AC".

Bob's flat-footed AC is 10. No arguments?

As for Charlie... according to p8, it's 10. According to p120, it's 9.

Do you apply a Dex Penalty to AC when someone is flat-footed?

-Hyp.

 

[Victim]

The glossary states that flat footed characters "cannot use their Dexterity bonus to AC."

Therefore, you keep the dex penalty.

 

[Artoomis]

9.

You lose your Dex bonus to AC, not your dex modifier to AC, two different things.

 

[Hypersmurf]

9.

You lose your Dex bonus to AC, not your dex modifier to AC, two different things.

Page 8 says modifier. Hence the need for a question

-Hyp.

 

[Mark]

Seems that according to the rules, you cannot be nimble if you don't know what hit you, but you can be clumsy in all situations...

 

[Hypersmurf]

Of course, there's no reason that p8 and p120 can't both be true... you could lose your Dex bonus and your Dex modifier

-Hyp.

 

[Mark]

Of course, there's no reason that p8 and p120 can't both be true... you could lose your Dex bonus and your Dex modifier

-Hyp.

Touche'

 

[Dr. Zoom]

The question here is whether or not you apply a dex penalty when you would not apply the dex bonus, like when you are flat-footed. IIRC, you always apply the penalty. I don't have a reference for that, yet.

The PH reference on page 8 is not very precise. It uses the term "modifier" and then goes on in the next phrase to describe something that applies to bonuses, not penalties.

 

[IceBear]

I remember the same thing. Someone with a Dex penalty isn't supposed to get a "bonus" for being flat-footed. Thus, you lose the bonus, but you always apply the penalty.

IceBear

PS Maybe in the PHB errata they corrected page 8?

 

[Hypersmurf]

The PH reference on page 8 is not very precise. It uses the term "modifier" and then goes on in the next phrase to describe something that applies to bonuses, not penalties.

You apply your modifier - positive or negative - to your ranged attacks, to your AC, to your Reflex saves, and to your Dex-based skills.

For AC, it's "provided you can react to the attack".

It seems odd to simply assume that p8 is wrong and p120 and the glossary are right - given that other phrasings show up twice in the PHB and are considered incorrect (like,say, "Shield Bonus" ).

-Hyp.