D&D (2024) My proposed fix for the Monk

[Zaukrie]

Call psionics Di points, what's the difference?

 

[Clint_L]

I don't really get the hate for Psionics. Maybe it's just that I really got into D&D in 4th edition, where Psionic power was really well defined and differentiated from the other power sources, and the Monk was a Psionic class in 4e.

Is it just people's distaste comes from earlier editions where it was basically just "magic, but sci-fi?" Or like, some super complex sub system that was just tacked onto the game like an afterthought?

I started playing D&D in 1979, and psionics back then were clearly inspired by a kind of soft sci-fi that really irritated me because it had a lot of crossover with real world pseudo-science that was very popular at the time (psychic mumbo jumbo like telekinesis, fortune telling and so on). So for me, it was (and is) both tonally jarring and eye-roll inducing. Magic, at least for me, is different; it is just obvious fantasy and part of the setting. Psionics feels to me like magic playing at pseudo-science. I dunno. To me, it felt like Uri Geller being added to my game.

Then, its implementation was terrible: it was an optional system but basically any character could be psionic if they had high intelligence, wisdom, or charisma (preferably all three) and made a very lucky dice roll. If you were psionic you gained access to an incredibly complicated and incredibly OP sub-game, making your character vastly more powerful than anyone else in the party - basically, you became a superhero. So this was like the advantage that you got from very lucky dice rolls during character creation, only on crack. Completely, utterly unbalanced.

For me, personally, not judging anyone else, I hate psionics in D&D with the fiery passion of a thousand blazing suns. And I like monks - my current main is a monk. So I don't want to be forced to embrace psionics if I want to play as a monk.

But.

I'm just one person. If others want psionics in the game, then bless. But not forced into a base PHB class, please. They would be a wonderful addition to a specific adventure setting, such as Planescape, for those who are interested, and could include various subclasses, including monk.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I think that monk has always been a psionic class since 1st edition.

That could be your interpretation, but it definitely wasn't stated as such.

 

[Clint_L]

That could be your interpretation, but it definitely wasn't stated as such.

100%. Psionics were a separate, optional system offered as an appendix. Monks were a core class, if seldom played.

 

[Uni-the-Unicorn!]

I started playing D&D in 1979, and psionics back then were clearly inspired by a kind of soft sci-fi that really irritated me because it had a lot of crossover with real world pseudo-science that was very popular at the time (psychic mumbo jumbo like telekinesis, fortune telling and so on). So for me, it was (and is) both tonally jarring and eye-roll inducing. Magic, at least for me, is different; it is just obvious fantasy and part of the setting. Psionics feels to me like magic playing at pseudo-science. I dunno. To me, it felt like Uri Geller being added to my game.

Then, its implementation was terrible: it was an optional system but basically any character could be psionic if they had high intelligence, wisdom, or charisma (preferably all three) and made a very lucky dice roll. If you were psionic you gained access to an incredibly complicated and incredibly OP sub-game, making your character vastly more powerful than anyone else in the party - basically, you became a superhero. So this was like the advantage that you got from very lucky dice rolls during character creation, only on crack. Completely, utterly unbalanced.

For me, personally, not judging anyone else, I hate psionics in D&D with the fiery passion of a thousand blazing suns. And I like monks - my current main is a monk. So I don't want to be forced to embrace psionics if I want to play as a monk.

But.

I'm just one person. If others want psionics in the game, then bless. But not forced into a base PHB class, please. They would be a wonderful addition to a specific adventure setting, such as Planescape, for those who are interested, and could include various subclasses, including monk.

Two people at least. This describes me very well except starting in the mid-late 80s

I don’t like psionics, but I go like monks. Kept the separate please. As previously noted, I’m fine with a psionic subclass for the monk, just not the base class.

 

[Uni-the-Unicorn!]

I like it, and I think that monk has always been a psionic class since 1st edition. Their powers are almost all psionic-inspired, just granted without a point cost. And if someone can explain to me a meaningful difference between discipine, ki/qi/chi, psionics, and the Force as power sources I'll give them a cookie. Psionic powers are a superset of monking/psychic warrior powers.

Is there meaningful difference between psionics and magic - I would say no.

 

[Chaosmancer]

So what would a component-less spell look like?

I've seen this used

When recreating a spell through a Psionic effect (using a Psionic discipline to cast the spell) the spell has no Material or Verbal components, but using any psionic ability requires Somatic components and causes the Psion to vibrantly glow with the otherworldly psionic energies they are controlling.

The gesture makes sense, it is like talking with your hands. It doesn't seem strictly necessary, but it eases the mental load to move and use that movement to spell intent.

 

[Zaukrie]

Is there meaningful difference between psionics and magic - I would say no.

Right. What's the difference other than a word? Change psionics to discipline here.....

 

[ChameleonX]

So what would a component-less spell look like?

It would look like Psionics.

 

[ChameleonX]

For me it originates from early editions because I originate from early editions! It has less to do with the mechanics of the edition and more to do with the concept. It is trying to be magic, without being magic. Though I see how that seems moot when you came from 4e as some people labeled a lot of powers that way (calling martial powers “magic” too) in 4e.

That makes sense. In 4th edition, Psionic power was rebranded as a kind of "cosmic immune response" to Far Realm incursions. The basic idea was that since creatures of the Far Realm, like Mind Flayers, Beholders, and so forth tend to be associated with mental powers and madness, Psionic potential started to appear in mortal creatures as a way of combating the Far Realm's corruption.

Alternatively, it could be viewed as a side-effect of that corruption. As in, Psionic power spreading among the people of the material plane could open them up to the influence of aberrant creatures, or somehow draw more of them to our world, and so on.

It was left to the DM which way they wanted to spin it.

But the overall idea was that Arcane power came from The Weave, Divine power came from the Upper Planes, Primal from the spirits of nature and the Feywild, and Elemental and Shadow from the Inner Planes and the Shadowfell, respectively.

Psionics was the only source that came from within. It was the power of your mind to directly shape reality without any intermediary necessary.