Flattening the math: AC and Attack bonuses idea

[Fanaelialae]

I've tried thinking of simple Fighter that actually has some sort of noticeable progression for each level, but it seems rather difficult to do so. Using the math I proposed, it becomes possible to have +hit points and +attack bonus at each level. That sort of thing would feel meaningful and it'll be kept simple. What sort of progression would you have for, let's say, the first ten levels?

Frankly, that's hard to say without knowing a lot more about the system and having a point of comparison. +2 damage per level is pretty impressive if everyone else only gets +1/level, but is crappy if everyone gets +10/level. As such, I can't give you a progression, but here are a few ideas I might include:


-Bonus hit points. Really, this one is a gimmie, but the simple fighter should have high hp. Probably the highest hp per level, unless there's a really good reason to give a different class more (the only class I could see with any reasonable argument for that would be barbarian).

-Bonus damage. The fighter could get the biggest bonus to damage per level. At high levels he hits harder than anyone else.

-Improved critical damage. The fighter might crit harder than anyone else. If they decide to keep the confirmation roll, he might have a bonus (for the confirmation roll only). He might also get effects that trigger on a critical hit (such as knocking an opponent backward, or tripping them).

-New stances. Stances are a very simple mechanic. I could see the fighter learning new stances as he levels, in order to increase his options slightly.

-Elimination of armor penalties. They might make sense at level 1, but by the time the fighter's peers include Gilgamesh and Beowulf, plate armor should be like a second skin to him.

-Initiative bonuses. The the fighter is supposed to be a master of battle, yet he's traditionally been somewhat slow to act. That always bothered me a little. (And yes, I realize that in earlier editions a fighter could use fast weapon speed weapons, but those tended to be the non-fighter weapons.)

-Surprise negation. A battle hardened fighter should probably be harder to surprise than anyone else. He's a fighter. He should always be ready to fight.

-Movement bonuses. To help the fighter get to the front lines faster.

-General maneuver bonuses. Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that they decide to include combat maneuvers that anyone can try (bull rush, charge, etc.). The fighter could eliminate penalties inherent to these attacks, or even gain bonuses to them.

-If DDN uses some version of Second Wind, the fighter might be able to Second Wind more easily than other classes. Perhaps it's a standard action for the wizard, but only a minor action for the fighter.

-Similarly, if healing surge value still exists in some form, the fighter might get a bonus to it. Even if it doesn't, the fighter might get a bonus he can add to any healing he receives.

-The fighter might also receive skill improvements. Perhaps he can reroll a failed climb check.

-Perks. Little, useful, interesting qualities. Things like quick draw. This might be done with bonus feats, but that depends mostly upon what feats do in the new edition.


As you can see, there are a lot of ways to simulate a better fighter without touching attack bonus or defenses. I'd say if you can't fill a 10 level fighter progression with the above, you're not really trying.

 

[Hassassin]

I don't like multiplying damage for margin, both because it encourages min-maxing (when there are no diminishing returns) and because of the extra math.

However, something like your idea could work for critical hits (which are rare):

[B]DC	Effect[/B]
<0	Max damage
0	Double damage
5	Knock down
10	Push back 10'
15	Stun
...

On a natural 20 roll another attack roll, subtract target AC and look up the result from the above table. You can choose any lower DC effect instead.

 

[kitsune9]

If we are going to have a "you beat the DC by *interval* you get a bonus" might be better to assign flat damage bonuses. +1 damage by each 5 you are over the DC. It's a much smaller bonus, but it relieves us the issue of capping AC and capping to-hits and rewonking all sorts of other systems.

I was thinking 1 for 1 over DC but your idea works for me too.

 

[Sunseeker]

I was thinking 1 for 1 over DC but your idea works for me too.

That's an option, but hitting a DC of 30 with a 45 could be pushing it a little bit. It doesn't really matter, either way works about the same, you'd just have to expect foes to be reasonably tougher to deal with what would basically be crit damage more often.

 

[Libramarian]

Basically the idea is to replace some attack bonuses with damage bonuses.

I think your idea is a bit complicated compared to just replacing some of the character's bonuses to attack as they level with some bonuses to damage. E.g. instead of the fighter gaining +1 atk every level, they get +1 atk on even and +1 dmg on odd levels.