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FLAVOR CLASSES: They're Ba-ack!!!

jmucchiello - I'm glad that you like my class idea, and that you have such enthusiasm for the idea of a collection of these classes. However, I do not want to see these classes listed on a site other than ENworld, unless proper credit is given(to ENworld, not necessarily the individuals). I think that it would be a better idea to pursue an article in the ENworld Player's Journal, or possibly just a pdf posted in the resource section.

The Herbalist

d6

Fort:+2
Skills: 4+Int; Heal, Knowledge(Nature), Profession(Herbalist), Survival/Wilderness Lore

Permanent Class Skills: Heal, Knowledge(Nature), Profession(Herbalist), and Survival/Wilderness Lore become class skills regardless of your current class.

Herbal Remedy: Twice per day you may cast the Goodberry spell as a spell-like ability. All effects are as the spell.

Hearty Resistance: Due to frequent exposure to harmful natural toxins over the years a Herbalist gains a +4 circumstance bonus to saves against organic poisons, including monster poisons but not mineral poisons or poison gas.


~hf
 
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Saeviomagy- your entry should read:

In exchange for
Two fighter feats.
The ability to take more than 2 levels in a multiclassed regular class.
Weapon Specialization

I agree that the multiclass combo is much more powerful. I do not however think that your comparison is just. We have all along said that a character should be prevented from taking more than one Flavor Class. Your example shows a reason why. Compare a Fighter 3/Flavor Class 1 and you will find the results much more balanced, although probably slightly more powerful if you pick one of the fighter based Flavor Classes. This is one reason that the d10 hit die had been suggested to be removed as an option.

~hf
 

handforged said:
jmucchiello - I'm glad that you like my class idea, and that you have such enthusiasm for the idea of a collection of these classes. However, I do not want to see these classes listed on a site other than ENworld, unless proper credit is given(to ENworld, not necessarily the individuals). I think that it would be a better idea to pursue an article in the ENworld Player's Journal, or possibly just a pdf posted in the resource section.
Whether I put it up on a website or someone else does is not important to me. I just think this is good material (after some heavy editing to reduce the front loading) that should be properly OGCed. In order to do that, everyone who contributed significantly to the old thread (whom I listed above) must all publiccally release their material using the OGL or transfer the copyright to a central authority who will release said material. Until you all chime in agreeing to do this, no one (not even ENWorld) can publish this material as OGC.

OTOH, I could just take the concept and create my own classes and release that on my own but I don't have the time to develop 20-30 good classes on my own. So if I cannot get your permission to do this I'll just let the idea fall by the wayside and wish you good luck in your endeavor to produce a viable (and LEGAL) netbook or article for a magazine. I do have the time to EDIT 20-30 pretty good classes into a great and spiffy PDF.

On the third hand, if I knew for sure you all would go for it, I'd offer to buy out your work at like 2 - 2.5 cents a word. I consider that fair since it will require a lot of editing to get all the entries into a decent format. Based on what I read in the other thread and based on who created what that works out to:
HalfElfSorcerer ... 100 words
demiurge1138 ..... 200 words
handforged ....... 215 words
Frostmarrow .......230 words
Iron_Chef .......... 400 words *
The Proconsol .... 650 words *
Graf .................... 400 words *
* I split the court magus equally between The Proconsul and Graf and split the arcane manipulator among all three of them.

I don't know what to do with TeeSeeJay's noble since it is taken from the Mongoose class book I don't have and it so overpowered it may be better to just create a new one.

In summary, until all of you chime in and decide what to do with this material, it goes no where. If you all OGC it, I'd be happy to collect it and do some editing to make more palletable to the amti-power gamer. In both threads there are complaints about how over powered some of these classes are.
 

jmucchiello, you are free to use the stuff I've written. I'm always glad to see my name in a credit list but it's not necessary.

Jonas Gustafsson (Frostmarrow)

Let me know if you need more classes. I think I could write a few up.
 

Forgot something important

As the original post indicated the magical advancement of the class is the same (unless I got confused, then it's different by accident) as SKR's fractional advancement.
actually it may be slightly different, I think he gives spells 1st and not caster levels, but anyway

Especially if its winding up in some kind of offical OGL document we should reflect that properly.

handforged said:
I think that it would be a better idea to pursue an article in the ENworld Player's Journal, snip.
Given the diverse sources (but all from EnWorld) I think this is a pretty good idea.
[edit = A friend pointed out that some people take 'for pay' products more seriously. So I guess I'm sitting on the fence.]

handforged said:

The Herbalist

snip

Hearty Resistance: An Herbalist gains a +4 circumstance bonus to saves against plant-based poisons and spell-like effects due to their familiarity with plants and posions.

While I think this is a mechanically sound ability I would change the language a bit. Knowlege of poison doesn't really make your body more resistent to it, exposure does.
(So a scientist who studies bees isn't more resistant to bee stings than they would be normally, but a beekeeper is resistent...)

How about:
Hearty Resistance: Due to frequent exposure to harmful natural toxins over the years a Herbalist gains a +4 circumstance bonus to saves against organic poisons, including monster poisons but not mineral poisons or poison gas.

I swapped in the druid language from their venom immunity... it sounded like you were going for a similar kind of thing. Why not make it the same to keep it simple?

[edit: Forgot to add.
I, Graf Douglas, to hearby release any material I have produced for this or other threads, which include in the title Flavor Classes, to the OGL.]
 
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This class has identity issues, I realized mid-way through that there isn't really much of a reason to exclude clerics or other divine casters. I see them as fulfilling a very similar role, with virtually identical game mechanics but very different images.
The divine name in particular could use some improvement.
I also played a bit fast and loose with the skills. I don't think it's bad to have more knowledge skills for the class than someone could take.


HEDGE WIZARD/FRIAR (Flavor Class)
Wildly looked down upon by wizards from more civilized lands, most hedge wizards have not received formalized training most wizards take for granted. Alternatively a handful of arcanists have paused, their more competative colligues might say arrested, their studies to delve into the creation of the charms. Most hedge wizards live off the beaten track, and are important, if sometimes irradic, members of the of small rural communties.
Friars' focus on improving the well being of their flocks, though they may or may not be part of the official heirarchy of a church they are often at it's lowest rungs.

BAB: +0
Saves: Fort: +1 Ref +0 Will: +1
HD: d4
Special: The hedge wizard must choose a
spellcasting class. He must either already have a
level in that class or take it as his next class.
Despite the class' name any spellcaster including wizards, sorcerers and even bards, are eligible.
A friar may be any divine caster, even an old paladin or ranger might retire and spend his twilight years supporting those around him in a more laid-back capacity.

Class Skills: Concentration, Diplomacy, Heal, Knowledge (Nature, Geography), Knowledge (Arcana or Religion), Sense Motive, Spellcraft, Survival/Wilderness Lore.
Skill Points: 6 + Int modifier (x4 if hedge wizard/friar is the character?s first character level)

CLASS FEATURES
Magical Training: A hedge wizard/friar has a basic understanding of magic. While their power fades in comparison to those who focus totally on their magical training they are capible of true magic. A hedge wizard/friar is considered 1 caster level higher for determining spell effects, including damage, duration, range, etc as well as caster level for dispelling and the creation of magical items. Their number of spells known (if applicable) and spells per day do not improve.
(Ex: Mumsy Thistlewine, a halfing hedge wizard/sorc 5, casts an endurance spell on herself, it lasts for 6 hours and otherwise
functions as a spell cast by a 6th level caster. She does not know fireball or any other 3rd level spells, however, until she advances to 6th level sorc, when she gains spells as a normal 6th level caster.)
Exception: A 1st level character whose only level is hedge wizard/friar gains the spells per level & spells known of an apprentice character (forget what they're called, from the DMG), and cast spells as 1st level casters. From second level on they function as normal.
[edit: I'll figure out what the proper OGL rules way to put it, how SKR should be credited, etc. when we get to that stage]

Create Charm:
A hedge wizard or friar can create magical charms, whose effacicy depends upon their caster level. For every caster level a the hedge wizard (I'm getting sick of writing friar so I'm skipping it) gets 1 charm point. Charm points may be used to create a charm once per month. From the following table
Cost | Ability (all bonuses are considered luck bonuses)
1 | +1 to a specific skill
2 | +1 to hit a specific creature (you do not need to know the name of the creature, but you must describe it in sufficent detail: so 'the leader of the bloodyhand goblin tribe' is acceptable)
2 | +1 to save against a specific effect such as posion, disease, fire, or whatever.
3 | +1 to hide and move silently
3 | +1 to listen and spot checks
4 | +1 to Will, Fort or Reflex saves (chosen at time of casting)
4 | +1 to hit a specific race or sub race of animals, magical beats, humanoids, or monstrous humanoids (goblins, orcs, drow elves, dire wolves)
8 | +1 to hit a specific creature; any sort possible (demons, vampires, red dragons, flumphs)
10 | +2 to a single ability score
10 | +1 bonus to AC
A charm only provides a SINGLE type of bonus and never more than +4. Creating a charm takes 1 hour per point invested. A charm functions only for the person it is created for and remains potent for 2 days per level of the caster. An individual can benift from only one charm at a time, though they may not be aware of what it does the they must accept the charm from the hedge wizard. If, for some reason, a person accepts a second charm from any source their first charm is forever useless.
A hedge wizard may create a charm for themselves, however they must pay double the number of points listed in the chart above.
Example: Mumsy (caster level 6) wishes to create a charm to help her neiphew travel down the river to meet a prospective wife's family. She's heard the waters are high this season so she makes him a small charm to help him keep his head above water. Though she has six points to spend she can only make a charm of +4 to swim (because a charm can never have more than +4), it will last for 12 days. Though she might consider making a charm that gives a bonus to swim and fortitude saves (to help against drowning) she can't put multiple bonuses in a single charm and no-one can ever receive more than one charm. She'll content herself with the charm of swimming.
Later on Mumsy hears that one of her fvorite aunts in a nearby village has fallen ill, the mayor has kindly arranged for a horse to leave in the morning. She hates the irritable beasts and can never stay in her saddle so she decides to make a charm to keep any creature she's on soothed. She has six points to spend but she's making the charm for herself, so the costs are doubled and she can only make a charm of +3 to ride. When she gets to the villiage she manages to take care of her aunt but discovers that the village is under attack from a savage troll. Though she would like to make a charm to help the warriors of the village against the troll she still has many days before a month has passed and she can make no new charms to aid them.

Local knowledge: For all of their unschooled exterior a hedge wizard is tremendously familiar with the fauna and flora of their home region. They receive a +4 to any Knowledge or Survial/Wilderness Lore checks involving creatures or plants indigionous to their home region or areas within it. They can also get a little bit more out of their local plants than others in a similar situation; with access to local healing herbs they receive and addtional +1 competence bonus to healing checks.
A hedge wizard's 'local region' is an area up to 20 miles in diameter of similar climate and terrain. If a wizard lives in an area which has significantly different terrain types (like a deep forest and then rocky foothills leading into mountians) their type must be choosen when the class is taken.
Alternative, WITH DM PERMISSION, a hedge wizard may be familiar with multiple types of terrain within their area, however their knowledge survival/wilderness lore bonus drops to +3 and they receive no competence bonus on healing checks.
A hedge wizard who travels far from their homeland and settles in another area may familiarize themselves with their new home. This process takes a year and the hedge wizard must spend at least 30 hours a month week out and about in the land.

Perement class skills: A hedge wizard choose a single skill from their hedge wizard class list to become a perment class skill for the character.
 
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Graf- I like your wording and its clarity and have edited my entry to include it.

jmucchiello- I'm sorry if my previous words appeared snippy, I meant no disrespect to you or your offer to compile these classes. I will release my information as OGC under the OGL for the purpose of free publishing, as long as ENworld also receives credit.

Bryan Park

~hf

Mason

d6
Fort:+2
Skills: 4+int; Climb, Craft(stonework, brickwork), Knowledge(Architecture), and Profession(Mason)

Permanent Class Skills: Climb, Craft(stonework, brickwork), Knowledge(Architecture), and Profession(Mason) become class skills regardless of your current class.

One Eye on the Wall: A Mason is granted a +2 circumstance bonus to notice unusual stonework and can also automaticallu tell whether or not a given surface is level. This ability is otherwise identical to the Stonecunning ability of Dwarves. See p14-15 of PHB for Dwarves Stonecunning Ability.

Sturdy Construction: Any wall or structure that a Mason builds or oversees(with a number of workers equal or less than his level)has one additional point of hardness and fifteen Hit Points per 10ft by 10ft section. See p107 of DMG for walls stats.
 

handforged said:
jmucchiello- I'm sorry if my previous words appeared snippy, I meant no disrespect to you or your offer to compile these classes. I will release my information as OGC under the OGL for the purpose of free publishing, as long as ENworld also receives credit.

Bryan Park
~hf
I realize you probably didn't mean to sound snippy. No problem. As to crediting ENWorld, I have no problem with that either except that would require written permission from morrus to make use of his trademark in an OGL work. The advertising clause (as it is known) strictly forbids you from saying "As seen on [trademark name]" without their permission. I'm sure he'll have no problem with giving permission but it is another legal tangle that would need unravelling before we could collect these works. (Obviously the EnWorld Journal would have no problems with this particular tangle.)

Let's see that's: TeeSeeJay, handforged, Graf, and Frostmarrow so far. 4 down 4 to go.

Mason

d6
Fort:+2
Skills: 4+int; Climb, Craft(stonework, brickwork), Knowledge(Architecture), and Profession(Mason)

Permanent Class Skills: Climb, Craft(stonework, brickwork), Knowledge(Architecture), and Profession(Mason) become class skills regardless of your current class.
Two things:

1) This cuts close to the list of occupations that heroes wouldn't bother with. Are we going to include Serving Girl (or Wench if you prefer) and Stable Boy as occupation classes too? OTOH, I'm surprised Blacksmith has gone by yet. I know half of the people I play with love blacksmith backgrounds.

2) You really should cut back on providing permanent class skills. It is very powerful as the number of skills goes up. d20 Modern would phrase this "Choose one of the following skills to make a permanent class skill: climb, craft (stone), Knowledge (architecture) or Profession (mason)." 4 permanent class skills is already powerful, adding stonecunning starts to tip the class toward overpowered.


As a tip for creation of these classes, I would balance them against the Expert class. What the expert lacks is a feat class features/pseudo feats to make the "expert" more fantastic. So as you add features to the class you lower the hit die, limit the class skills (or skill points) even more than the Expert does. Personally I think the aim for these classes is that they are all "npc" classes and that a character with 3 classes and a favored class is CR 3. This might make some of the fun classes difficult to balance but this should be the goal. At least that's MHO.
 

handforged said:
Saeviomagy- your entry should read:

In exchange for
Two fighter feats.
The ability to take more than 2 levels in a multiclassed regular class.
Weapon Specialization
My mistake. You are correct. Originally I was comparing a leg/gla/her with a fighter 3, but I didn't think that it was quite cheesy enough, so I added a level of fighter :).

I agree that the multiclass combo is much more powerful. I do not however think that your comparison is just. We have all along said that a character should be prevented from taking more than one Flavor Class. Your example shows a reason why. Compare a Fighter 3/Flavor Class 1 and you will find the results much more balanced, although probably slightly more powerful if you pick one of the fighter based Flavor Classes. This is one reason that the d10 hit die had been suggested to be removed as an option.

~hf
I don't know the 'we' you're referring to. I was running by the original post of this thread, which stated that multiclassing more than one of these attracted multiclass penalties as normal.

I love the idea behind these. I think someone needs to closely scrutinise the power of each of them however.

On to specific complaints:
The court magus seems to have an ability (apprehend the invisible thread) which goes directly against the established mechanics for a skill, and with little reason to do so. A rewrite to this ability should probably simply point out that a succesful sense motive check can ALREADY detect the influence of mind affecting magic, give some bonus to notice it, allow it to detect expired spells from within the last 24 hrs, and allow a knowledge(arcana) check to work out the exact spell.

The heralds "call on lords power" doesn't really fit in with a herald to an earthbound lord.

The slavemaster hands out an ability for something which has not previously been addressed. The fact that the slavemaster gets "break slave" suggests that other characters do not. I'd suggest inventing a feat which allows the use of the 'handle animal' skill against sufficiently restrained humans, and then giving the slavemaster this feat.

The ratcatcher gets favoured enemy (vermin) which, unfortunately, doesn't apply to rats. Doh!
Perhaps it would be better off being favoured enemy (creatures of tiny size or smaller). That would cover just about anything that could be a household pest in a magical world (ie - spiders, rats, grigs, psionic rats etc).

I don't like the noble at all. Primarily because his class-based abilities are things which should be roleplaying type stuff rather than "hey, you're a noble, have some of this!". Both intimidate and favour should merely be in flavour text, not (ex) abilities, as there are no actual mechanics to go with them, they're pure roleplaying. Noble income should go - being able to get 20 times the usual sum from a profession check is probably too good, and it encourages an adventurer to stay at home rather than adventure, which is a bad thing. Benefice should be altered so that it basically says "the noble has somewhere to hang his hat, operating costs and profits balance out".
 

I just had an idea.

If the favoured skills of a flavour class REPLACED the skill list of a regular class, then perhaps some of these would be a bit more balanced. Furthermore, it would make taking multiple flavour classes more or less redundant.
 

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