Fleshing out a character, need ideas.

[Nicholas Raine]

I'm still toying around with exactly the kind of character i want to play. I rolled some pretty good stats, which hasnt helped. So far what I'm leaning towards is a Grey Elf rogue. Was born into a noble family, but when he was a baby, his entire family (to his knowledge) was assassinated. The night that this went down, his fathers spy master, a half elf, managed to sneak him out and protect him. Since then he was raised in a mostly human city on the shadier side of life. My character really doesnt know about any of this, as its been kept, his name changed, etc. Things were going fairly well, until recently. Part of the way his family was taken out so easily was the night of the assassination, as massive curse was placed on his bloodline. For some unknown reason, it never really affected him, until very recently. Its tanked his consitution (as in I'm going to bump his con down to like 6(-2)). No standard magic has worked to cure it thus far, which has vexxed the healers, so he's just trying to cope with it. I'm thinking maybe it was like a group of wizards that did some jacked channeling curse, it didn't really affect him since he was just a baby, but now that he's grown into his bloodline, its kicked in, with the possibility that since its become active, those responsible became aware of it, but don't know who it is yet.

As far as some of his other quirks/traits, I'm still fleshing it out.
Like I said, definatly rogue as a base class..but i'm toying with multiclassing into ranger or fighter, maybe both. The ranger part though would be more of an urban ranger concept. He's not so much of an assassin, more bounty hunter/spy(james bond style). So Im toying with the ranger levels for track and favored enemy. His home city I'm thinking should be one of the more rough and tumble cities. (Forgotten Realms Campaign) I think my quote for my character thus far is "I specalize in generalization."

Basic stuff
Race: Grey elf
Alignment: CN
Age: Youngish

Stats:
Str: 17 (-2)=15
Dex:16 (+2)=18
Con: 12 (-2) (But in reality im going to make it 6)
Wis: 14
Int: 18 (+2)=20
Con: 16

Feats that I'm going to shoot for: Point blank shot, precise hot.
After that i'm thinking combat expertiese, and improved feint, quick draw, etc. Again with the generalization; he's decent with the bow and can protect himself in melee, but he's not crazy power attack cleave kinda good.

Skills: A lot. hense the phat int. But not specalized real amount. Hide and MS and Bluff are the only ones i think i took at rank 4, almost all the other ones are r1 and 2. Again, generalization vs specalization. Because of the charisma, i took points in all the social skills, intimidate, diplomacy, etc. There isn't too many skills on the rogues list I didn't put points into. (I ignored things like jump/climb/swim etc because I can dump points from either ranger, or fighter if i take that.)

The storyteller is open to stuff from pretty much any books as long as he can look it over.
One of the things we are probably going to do with the curse is have it remove his elven immunities to sleep, etc, but on the flip side he's going to give me 1 extra starting feat.

Part of the reason i'm interested in taking a couple levels of ranger is for track, and favored enemy (humans). That, and they get good skill points. I also want fighter though for the BAB and the feats. However, I'm pretty open to suggestions. I'm going for a min/max on a generalist.

Thanks in advance.

Raine

 

[Nicholas Raine]

bump

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I wish I could help you more, but most of my books are on loan right now...

I believe there is a Feat that lets you treat all (or many) skills as class skills all of the time. That could help you with your "specializing in generalization."

 

[Nicholas Raine]

Hmm..I'll have to look for it. I know there is one that will let you treat knowledge skills, or languages as class skills. Thats not a bad idea though, that way if I could put points from the other classes into some of my rogue skills like disable device and keep them decent.

 

[FalcWP]

Jack of all Trades (Complete Adventurer) lets you treat every skill as trained. A feat that made every skill a class skill would be (IMHO) extremely overpowered.

Educated (Eberron Campaign Setting, maybe other spots) lets you treat all knowledge skills as class skills, and gives a +1 bonus on two knowledge skills of your choice.

Either of those could be worthwhile.

The alternate Bard ability from the PHB II, Bardic Knack, lets you use 1/2 your bard level rather than your ranks in a skill, so that could do roughly the same thing, if you wanted a level of Bard.

Also... your character may very well die, even if you're careful. As a rogue, you're getting six hitpoints at level one. That curse gives away 2 (if you have a 6 Con) or 3 (if you have a 4 con). So, that drops you to three or four hit points... which is on par with a fairly low-con Wizard or Sorcerer, and utterly unsuited for melee. Its a bit easier to get sneak attacks in during melee, so, that hurts. Also, your fortitude save is abysmal.

One possible remedy would be to get a few vials of antitoxin - your character is intelligent and would recognize that extreme danger poison would put him in, and antitoxin could be a lifesaver for you. Any other alchemical or magical way to boost fortitude saves or hit points should be taken as well.

It may be worth it to go with the bard (especially with bardic knack); bards don't have any particular reason to rush into melee, when they can stand back and mix song, spell, and bow together. You could also look at either a scout or a ranger for a few more HP while still getting lots of skill points and ranged combat skills. Just some options.

 

[monboesen]

I would have to agree with the above poster. Playing a character with a constitution of 6 is a recipe for dissapointment.

your average hp will be

1: 4
2: 6
3: 7
4: 9
5: 10
6: 12
7: 13
8: 14
9: 16
10: 17

and so on..

It will be slightly better if you take levels as fighter/ranger, but not much.

Simply put you will die very fast. If the game is intended to be about getting the curse lifted it's unlikely you will survive to that happy day.


If I were you I would work with the DM to find another curse that you could affected by. Constitution is simply one of the scores that no adventuring character can afford to have a low score in.


If you want to be a Jack of all trades, the new bardic option in PH II, bardic knack, should be ideally suited for you.

You give up bardic knowledge but gain virtual ranks in all skills equal to half you level. At level 1 you would be considered to have one rank in ALL skills that can be used untrained. At level 10 you can effectively have 5 ranks in all skills, and have maxed out 6+int adj. skills.


A bard is also a class that gets strong with scores like those you have rolled. He will be able to do all things pretty well. Fight, Sneak, Social interaction, Magic and so on.


Baring the curse it could look something like this at level 1

Male grey elf bard 1
Medium humanoid
Init +4; Senses Lowlight vision, Listen +4, Spot +4
AC 18, touch 14, flat-footed 14 (+3 armor, +4 Dex, +1 shield)
hp 8 (1 HD)
Immune sleep spells and effects
Fort +2, Ref +6, Will +3
Spd 30 ft.
Melee Longsword +2 (1d8+2 19-20*2)
Ranged Shortbow +4 (1d6 20*3)
Base Atk +2; Grp +2
Combat Gear Longsword, Shortbow, Std. leather, Buckler
Abilities Str 15, Dex 18, Con 14, Int 14, Wis 12, Cha 18
Skills Appraise +3, Balance +5, Bluff +8, Climb +3, Concentration +3, Decipher Script +3, Diplomacy +5, Disable Device +3, Disguise +5, Escape Artist +8, Forgery +3, Gather Information +5, Handle Animal +5, Heal +5, Hide +8, Intimidate +5, Jump +3, Knowledge (arcane, geography, history, local, nobility, the planes) +3, Listen +4, Move Silently +8, Open Lock +5, Perform +8, Ride +5, Search +5, Sense Motive +2, Sleight Of Hand +5, Spellcraft +3, Spot +4, Survival +2, Swim +3, Tumble +5, Use Magic Device +8, Use Rope +5
Class abilites Bardic music, bardic knack, countersong, fascinate, inspire courage +1
Spells per day 0/3
Spells known Detect magic, Ghost sound, Prestidigitation, Read magic

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I'll have to disagree with that...Low Con≠Death Sentence.

...at least, not in my experience. I've personally played PCs with Con scores as low as 7, and haven't experienced any real difference in mortality rate over higher Con PCs.

But the player has to maintain a constant awareness that the PC is fragile if he expects the PC to survive. In other words, you DO have to play smart. A low-Con fighter is unwise to the extreme, but a low-Con Sorcerer can do just fine.

 

[monboesen]

I'll have to disagree with that...Low Con≠Death Sentence.

It will depend partly on the dm and the nature of the game. But in a standard game with clever enemies, area of effect energy attacks and the likes you will be toast pretty fast. That is if the dm isn't taking special measures to protect you.

Just look at the average hp for that theoretical rogue I outlined. He will die the first time he misses his reflex save vs. a standard area of effect energy attack of some kind.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Like the Monty Python skit suggests, the best path to survival is not being seen.

...or whatever path your PC can take to avoid being in combat.

I'm getting to participate in a campaign in which the DM prefers 4d6 keep high for stats. If he uses a point buy system, he prefers what we call a 6x13 array (equivalent to having a 13 in each of the 6 stats). I believe that correlates to the board terminology of a 30 point buy.

If you want any kind of "elite" stats in his campaign, something has to give. If your PC concept requires "MSD," you're going to have some low stats somewhere.

 

[Nicholas Raine]

Well, I disagree that low con = quick death. Part of the reason I'm doing it is for the challenge.
Also, I dont think I mentioned that we are starting out around level 4-5. The curse is going to kick in at the start of game play, so any previously rolled HP won't be affected by the -2. His "original" con is 12, so +1 hp until level 4-5. That way I'll obviously have a decent base of HP, but after that its not going to go so well. Its also more of a RP/Plot game than a straight hack n slash. And if I take any fighter/ranger levels as I'm thinking, his hp again will still be a little better.

Also, with a high dex and combat expertise, My AC will be decent should I get forced into Melee combat. Improved Feint will hopefully allow me to get out of it quickly. My concern I guess is about multiclassing. I'm not really interested in the bard class, as it doesnt quite lend to the bounty hunter idea that I had..(hense ranger, favored enemy and track.) Unfortuantly I don't think you can just take Favored Enemy as a regular feat, can you? =)

Thanks for the input though, I'm listening to it all.