Flight, Load, and Strength

[fenzer]

First let me apologize if this topic has come up before. The search feature is currently on the fritz and my search to this point has yielded little.

This came up in our last game where my warforged juggernaut was scooped to safety from the deck of a failing airship by the strong tallons of a griffon. While I'm greatful to the griffon (and the DM for that matter), I believe that my warforged and the paladin and his poor griffon should have plummitted to the water far below.

Out of this event, this question arose, at what point (read load) does a flying mount loose its ability to fly?

Early in my search I found this reading from the sage himself in his Rules of the Game, All About Movement Part 5. He states, and I paraphrase, that any creature capable of flight cannot do so if encumbered. So, if you try and fly with any load other than light, you are out of luck.

I am okay with this but would feel better if any of you could confirm it.

Also, how do you determine what a light load is for a large winged quadriped? Is the load based on what it can bear on four legs or do you take into consideration the fact that in flight it is only using its wings? Strenght is strength but 4 legs vs 2 wings? I don't know. The PHB states that a large quadriped can bear a load three times greater than the amount listed for its strength. The PHB also states that a large biped (closer to a pair of wings if you ask me) can lift two times the amount listed on the table for its strength. And no, the PHB nor the DMG offer any suggestions. So which is it? And why in the hell is this information so dern hard to find?

Ya, this may be a little nit-pick on my part but I am curious what you folks are doing in this situation.

So, are we all in agreement that you cannot fly if your load is greater than light? And do you determine load based on legs or wings?

Thanks for the help.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Ya, this may be a little nit-pick on my part but I am curious what you folks are doing in this situation.

I don't have cites on-hand, but I have always ruled thusly:

1. Flying creatures cannot fly with anything greater than a light load.
2. A quadruped is a quadruped, period. So 3x the chart, for determining a light load.

Now, you still have to figure in the weight of the paladin (including his armor) + your juggernaut, to determine the weight the griffon was carrying, so it might be over a light load even at 3x the chart. I know that while my paladin PC's griffon has no trouble carrying him, another fully armored warrior would be too much.

 

[Scharlata]

I don't have cites on-hand, but I have always ruled thusly:

1. Flying creatures cannot fly with anything greater than a light load.
2. A quadruped is a quadruped, period. So 3x the chart, for determining a light load.

Hi!

Yes, to answer 1.
Yes, to answer 2 (but don't forget the Size of the mount when calculating carrying capacity).

Kind regards

 

[fenzer]

Thanks guys. In thinking about things, staying with the 3x strength for quadripeds is probably the best approach. This gives a little wiggle room for a armor clad warrior and his mount.

Anyone else care to offer insight?

 

[IndyPendant]

If this were to happen in my campaign, I would allow a winged creature to glide in medium encumbrance, forcing them to go downward at least 5' for every 20' horizontal travelling. (With very limited ability to fly upwards, still ending up with an overall downward trend.) I'm pretty sure that would be a house rule though, and it may not have helped you if you were far from a suitable landing spot. If you brought the mount up to heavy encumbrance though, I'd rule a 'sorry, you're sol' situation...: )

 

[azmodean]

I agree with what has been said already, which puts the Griffon's light load at 300 lbs, but only if it doesn't get a str bonus from being a paladin mount, or having extra equipment. (an extra +2 to strength would boost the light load to 400 lbs.)

 

[fenzer]

Thanks for the help guys.

 

[Rawhide]

The rule is difficult to find in 3.5 rulebooks. Look up flight in the back of the Monster Manual for the light-load rules.

Myself, I see nowhere that gives separate loads for walking or flying, so I'd use the same even for a quadruped, but I wouldn't object to your x3 house rule if I ran into a game using it.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Myself, I see nowhere that gives separate loads for walking or flying, so I'd use the same even for a quadruped, but I wouldn't object to your x3 house rule if I ran into a game using it.

There aren't any rules that differentiate between walking/flying carrying capacity, but there are rules for quadrupeds vs. bipedal creatures.

Bigger and Smaller Creatures: The figures on Table: Carrying Capacity are for Medium bipedal creatures. A larger bipedal creature can carry more weight depending on its size category, as follows: Large x2, Huge x4, Gargantuan x8, Colossal x16. A smaller creature can carry less weight depending on its size category, as follows: Small x3/4, Tiny x1/2, Diminutive x1/4, Fine x1/8.
Quadrupeds can carry heavier loads than characters can. Instead of the multipliers given above, multiply the value corresponding to the creature’s Strength score from Table: Carrying Capacity by the appropriate modifier, as follows: Fine x1/4, Diminutive x1/2, Tiny x3/4, Small x1, Medium x1-1/2, Large x3, Huge x6, Gargantuan x12, Colossal x24.

The x3 rule isn't the House Rule. Not using it (because you believe a quadruped would not benefit from added stability since it only uses 2 wings while flying) would be the House Rule.

 

[fenzer]

Lord Pendragon is right.

I have decided to keep it simple and stick to the x3 rule for walking and flight.

It would be nice to have this information more readily available.

Thank heaven we have this fine resource and community. Thanks for the all the help guys.