Fluid site up, E-Tools Screenshots available

[Christian]

Hey-it looks like WOTC has put up their own preview on their website. It looked like it flowed a bit better then the Fluid preview ... Of course, now I can't get back into it. Freakin' WOTC webserver ...

 

[Twin Rose]

Maybe it's just because I'm skeptical, but is there any reason for me to go spend money on this when there's tools that do the same thing already for free?

This is an pretty common debate. There are free PC games out on the net as well - frogger, space invaders, even Kings Quest. They're abandon ware, and in some cases the source code is even available. Guess what? No technical support. No gaurauntee of continued update or improvement. No promises that if, somehow, they delete your copy of windows you will get some sort of assistance. They are "as is" and you take what you get. You get what you pay for in software, that's a very serious fact.

Yes, the layout has improved over the CharGen. The GUI, aside from the annoying colors, is the only thing that puts it over PCGen as far as character creation goes, IMO. Well, not true. From the looks of the program it will be easier to add new content to e-Tools than it will be to PCGen - my one complaint with PCGen is you have to go editing files, which I am capable of, but not everyone is. There should be an option in-program.

Still, I'll take a little inconvenience over paying 50+ dollars any day. [/B]

It's not incredibly different than other professional applications, in terms of having editors. The 'shaded screens' for different functionality is not a new concept, but one typically frowned upon in the Windows environment from a development standpoint.

Personally, I think there are more questions you should ask yourself than "Should I pay or should I not?" Like any product, you should shop compare. Ask yourself.. Do you use 3rd party products? Do you need software that supports non-standard Base Attack Values? Do you need multi-colored menus? Do you need dungeon generation? Do you need official stamps from WOTC?

Find a product, and there are 3 professional applications that I know of, that suits your needs. Or, if ALL you do is character generation, without editors and DM tools, stick with what works for you - in this case, PCGen.

 

[LightPhoenix]

This is an pretty common debate. There are free PC games out on the net as well - frogger, space invaders, even Kings Quest. They're abandon ware, and in some cases the source code is even available. Guess what? No technical support. No gaurauntee of continued update or improvement. No promises that if, somehow, they delete your copy of windows you will get some sort of assistance. They are "as is" and you take what you get. You get what you pay for in software, that's a very serious fact.

There's no guarantee of assistance if you pay either. I can think of plenty of situations either my friends, I, people on these boards, et cetera that have paid for a product and gotten no assistance. Or if there is assistance, it's along the lines of "reboot your computer". I can think of plenty of situations where people have gotten extremely good help as well.

Of course, your whole argument is based off of the fact that non-profit programs are totally without support - obviously a broad generalization. Just look at how often updates to PCGen are made, and how quick you can get responses about problems, and how easily you can report bugs. That's obviously not unsupported.

Personally, I think there are more questions you should ask yourself than "Should I pay or should I not?" Like any product, you should shop compare. Ask yourself.. Do you use 3rd party products? Do you need software that supports non-standard Base Attack Values? Do you need multi-colored menus? Do you need dungeon generation? Do you need official stamps from WOTC?

Find a product, and there are 3 professional applications that I know of, that suits your needs. Or, if ALL you do is character generation, without editors and DM tools, stick with what works for you - in this case, PCGen.

Do I use 3rd party products? Yes, of course. So do most people. Your point?

Do I need software that is easily adaptable? Occasionally. I'd prefer to have adaptability there from the start than find out when I do need it that it isn't there. Programs like E-Tools and PCGen exist to make life easier, and it would seem to me at least that having an amount of adaptability built in from the start would be the most sensible.

Of course, did I say I had a problem with E-Tools and adaptability? I certainly don't remember saying anything of the sort. I don't think it would be too hard to add things in from other sources. It would have been nice if the splatbooks were included in E-Tools though, seeing as how this isn't 3rd-party. It's one of the big reasons I use chargen programs - too many options to keep track of in my head. I don't even use PCGen if I'm making a standard PHB/DMG character - it's just as fast for me to make it by hand.

Do I need multi-colored menus, or other graphical stuff? Personally, I'd be fine without it. However, I recognize the need for ease of use. That said, I think the colors are garish, and I think it's somewhat insulting that they'd think you can remember what part of the program you are in. If it's a necessary thing, then I must ask why you'd have problems knowing what part of the program you're in.

Do I need dungeon generation, or a bunch of other tools? No, not particularly. Do I think they're necessary? Well, it certainly hasn't stopped DMs from running adventures so far...

Do I need the WotC stamp? Absolutely not. I need stuff that works. The question is whether E-Tools works efficiently, does what it says, and most importantly allows me to tell it what to do through the use of customization. Seeing how long it took for this program to get out, I dare say that it should be damn good. And I just don't think it will be.

Cynical to the end, that's me.

 

[Twin Rose]

I can think of plenty of situations either my friends, I, people on these boards, et cetera that have paid for a product and gotten no assistance.

As I said, shop around, look into the companies offering products, and look at their track records for convenience and quick response. This is pretty much true of any software in any genre, I think, when you have similar but different products. Be very careful not to buy the flashiest box. Often, that means more production money spent on pretty boxes, and less on things like bug removal.

Of course, your whole argument is based off of the fact that non-profit programs are totally without support - obviously a broad generalization. Just look at how often updates to PCGen are made, and how quick you can get responses about problems, and how easily you can report bugs. That's obviously not unsupported.

Well, this is where you are incorrect, because I didn't approach it as an argument but as friendly advice. I even explained in what situations sticking with what you have is better. I certainly never said PCGen was unsupported - I said, as with all fanware, that there was no gaurauntee of support. When you have developers who have other jobs, school, social lives.. They can break apart.. Go seperate ways.. There is nothing tying them to the product in a way they can't stop supporting - that if it is in fact their day job, they will 'have' to support it.

Do I use 3rd party products? Yes, of course. So do most people. Your point?

It was advice, again, not an argument. I'm sorry to see you feel it is. The point is that when you are 'shopping' or looking at various products, see if they support non-standard BAB tables. Maybe you need Prestige Races, or something like it. Maybe you need dual-damage codes...

Of course, did I say I had a problem with E-Tools and adaptability?

Not sure that you did, but I am not personally convinced that it is adaptable to 3rd party products.

If it's a necessary thing, then I must ask why you'd have problems knowing what part of the program you're in.

I've seen this technique in other software packages in the past, and typically, it is frowned upon by the development community. People want their windows programs to look like windows.

Do I need dungeon generation, or a bunch of other tools? No, not particularly. Do I think they're necessary? Well, it certainly hasn't stopped DMs from running adventures so far...

Some DMs don't use DM screens. Some don't use adventure modules. Some don't even use maps. They're tools.

Do I need the WotC stamp? Absolutely not. I need stuff that works. The question is whether E-Tools works efficiently, does

Time will tell, I have't seen it, and I try not to judge anything before trying it. I'm certainly not convinced it will be the 'be-all-end-all'. I can only hope that the RPG customer base doesn't determine it to be, because competition breeds quality in the market place.

 

[MJEggertson]

All I know is I got excited when I saw that html printout. Unfortunately, it's all static (non editable). Not too much of a problem though, it's easily addressed through inputs. I may have to do something about this.

Time to write a few emails to the developers...

 

[EricNoah]

Eric:

Can your copy of E-Tools do monster advancement beyond the "legal" HD of a monster?

Can it add class levels to HD-Advanced Monsters?

a) No, but there would be an easy way to do that: use the Race Generator to edit the "core" version of the monster, add more hit dice to its advancement progression, Save As with a different name, and now you have a custom creature that can have more than the legal HD advancement.

b) Hmm, do advancement AND add class levels. I'm not sure about that one, I don't think so.

 

[Charwoman Gene]

a) No, but there would be an easy way to do that*SNIP*

b) Hmm, do advancement AND add class levels. I'm not sure about that one, I don't think so.

*sigh* I'm a little disappointed.

BUt I'm much more excited.

 

[Fast Learner]

All I know is I got excited when I saw that html printout. Unfortunately, it's all static (non editable). Not too much of a problem though, it's easily addressed through inputs. I may have to do something about this.

Time to write a few emails to the developers...

It's editable in the sense that any HTML is editable. I was able to open it in Dreamweaver, for example, and modify it at will.

 

[MJEggertson]

Good point. Can't say I've ever used (or have) one of those html editing programs though.

 

[Christian]

I edit my HTML in Notepad.

(Hard to see what the tables come out looking like, though. )