Fly spell and hold person?

[RangerWickett]

If you're held, can you fly with magic that doesn't require muscles to move you? My thought is yes you can, since hold person only says that a winged creature cannot flap its wings, and thus falls. A creature flying without wings can still move by thought.

 

[frankthedm]

If you're held, can you fly with magic that doesn't require muscles to move you? My thought is yes you can, since hold person only says that a winged creature cannot flap its wings, and thus falls. A creature flying without wings can still move by thought.

Using a fly spell requires only as much concentration as walking, so the subject can attack or cast spells normally

Thats the way i read it. But I also read it you can't use the spell in any way when dazed or stunned.

 

[gnfnrf]

The main argument against fly still working while paralyzed is that wearing armor slows you, which means your limbs are involved somehow. That, and there being no concrete evidence in the rules that using fly is a mental action. On the other hand, a creature with no limbs and no movement modes can still fly under the effects of the spell, so maybe it should work. This question has some milage in it, and either result is reasonable.

Hold person, however, is a different question. It both paralyzes you and prevents you from taking actions of any kind. Flying, however done, is definately a move action.

--
gnfnrf

 

[Blood Jester]

The main argument against fly still working while paralyzed is that wearing armor slows you, which means your limbs are involved somehow...

Actually, that only implies that weight and or mass are involved.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Actually, that only implies that weight and or mass are involved.

No. Take the example of a human with 12 Strength.

If he carries 40lb of chain mail (a light load), he can fly with a speed of 60. But if he wears 40lb of chain mail (medium armor), he can only fly with a speed of 40.

It's neither the weight nor the mass of the armor that slows him down; it's the fact that he's wearing it.

-Hyp.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Hold person, however, is a different question. It both paralyzes you and prevents you from taking actions of any kind.

That does depend on whether one considers the "can take no action" in the Hold Person text to be a reminder of the effects of the paralyzed condition (in which case purely mental actions are still allowed, though I don't consider utilising a Fly spell to be such), or a separate restriction above and beyond what the paralyzed condition imposes.

-Hyp.

 

[RangerWickett]

That does depend on whether one considers the "can take no action" in the Hold Person text to be a reminder of the effects of the paralyzed condition (in which case purely mental actions are still allowed, though I don't consider utilising a Fly spell to be such), or a separate restriction above and beyond what the paralyzed condition imposes.

-Hyp.

Yeah, by a strict reading of hold person, you aren't allowed to make the attempts to break out of it, since those require a full round action, and you supposedly can't take actions. Heh.

So, if fly does require you to move your body to fly, what does that motion look like?

What about telekinesis? Levitate? Using subjective-directional gravity to fall in the direction of your choice?

 

[Hypersmurf]

So, if fly does require you to move your body to fly, what does that motion look like?

I'd call it up to the DM's flavour text, myself.

What about telekinesis? Levitate? Using subjective-directional gravity to fall in the direction of your choice?

Telekinesis says you move things "by concentrating", and Levitate says you "mentally direct", so I'd consider both to be purely mental actions.

-Hyp.

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

So, if fly does require you to move your body to fly, what does that motion look like?

Flapping your arms up and down like a duck?

 

[TheGogmagog]

Flapping your arms up and down like a duck?

I could see the casters in our campaigns not casting the spell because it would look ridiculous. Unless of course they have improved invisibility going at the time.