Fly vs. Alter Self.

[Pixie Barbarian]

One drawback of using alter self for flying is a pretty glaring oversight that most GMs and players don't think about. Unless the spellcaster is going around shirtless, he will need to take off whatever he is wearing to allow the wings to be able to be spread for flying. This is even more of a problem if he is wearing armor.

I know that most casters don't wear armor, but the player will still need to take an partial action to remove his shirt (or strip completely if he favors robes ). This can take even longer if the player is carrying anything in his hands.

If he decides just to never wear a shirt anymore, then the GM should make it start affecting his social interactions (e.g., no shirt, no shoes, no service), as well as make the character suffer from bad weather (e.g., coldness or sunburn).

 

[Lord Pendragon]

One drawback of using alter self for flying is a pretty glaring oversight that most GMs and players don't think about. Unless the spellcaster is going around shirtless, he will need to take off whatever he is wearing to allow the wings to be able to be spread for flying. This is even more of a problem if he is wearing armor.

I never bothered with this. The old Alter Self provided flight at 30' (Poor) which wasn't good enough for combat in any sense. However, it was good enough for a wizard or fighter/wizard to use it to fly up to the top of a wall instead of climbing, or the other side of a lake instead of swimming. Since most fighters can accomplish the same tasks with no magic at all, I never had a problem with it.

I'd have to take a look at the Avariel and how good its flight is before I made a decision. Luckily, we don't play in the Forgotten Realms, so simply stating that Avariel don't exist is an easy and available option for me.

And I don't think I'd buy the "Avariel are Monstrous Humanoids" thing. But that's a matter of taste more than anything else.

 

[JoeBlank]

One drawback of using alter self for flying is a pretty glaring oversight that most GMs and players don't think about. Unless the spellcaster is going around shirtless, he will need to take off whatever he is wearing to allow the wings to be able to be spread for flying. This is even more of a problem if he is wearing armor.

I know that most casters don't wear armor, but the player will still need to take an partial action to remove his shirt (or strip completely if he favors robes ). This can take even longer if the player is carrying anything in his hands.

From the SRD description of Alter Self:
"When the change occurs, your equipment, if any, either remains worn or held by the new form (if it is capable of wearing or holding the item), or melds into the new form and becomes nonfunctional."

So the spellcaster could simply have his shirt (or armor) meld into the new form, being shirtless while winged.

 

[Norfleet]

I've always wondered what interesting effects would occur if all of these little freebie "equipment-affecting" clauses in all of these spells were removed. I've always thought that those little extra clauses were a cheesy way out, personally.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

I've always wondered what interesting effects would occur if all of these little freebie "equipment-affecting" clauses in all of these spells were removed. I've always thought that those little extra clauses were a cheesy way out, personally.

Well, considering the time it'd take to remove all your gear, it'd make any of those spells practically unusable, especially considering the duration reduction in 3.5. Is it cheesy to say that the equipment is just absorbed into the new form? Possibly. But it's either that, or have the wizard spend several rounds taking off all his clothing, bracers, backpack, rings, periapt, etc. etc. And that wouldn't be any fun either.

 

[Norfleet]

Well, considering the time it'd take to remove all your gear, it'd make any of those spells practically unusable, especially considering the duration reduction in 3.5. Is it cheesy to say that the equipment is just absorbed into the new form? Possibly. But it's either that, or have the wizard spend several rounds taking off all his clothing, bracers, backpack, rings, periapt, etc. etc. And that wouldn't be any fun either.

Hmm. You know, maybe that neatly explains the traditional garb of the mages in general, from the easily removed robe to the half-naked sorceress.

The present version of things invites some very interesting abuses, such as the wizard who picks up something which is much too large for him to reasonably haul off, perhaps because it is immensely massive, or simply too heavy to fall within the weight restrictions of other spells, uses Alter Self or similar spell to "absorb" all of these items, and then walks/teleports/flies off with them. For instance, our now shirtless wizard has conveniently concealed the fact that he ever had a shirt to begin with. No amount of searching him can possibly reveal that he ever had the shirt. Substitute "shirt" for "contents of royal treasury", and it gets more interesting.

And what happens to a wizard who sustains the loss of non-vital body parts and extensions in a manner which doesn't inflict loss of hitpoints, such as having his hair cut during an Alter Self effect? What happens to those components when they're removed from the altered wizard? Do they remain in that state until the spell expires, or do they immediately change back? What if the wizard does not have a corresponding part, such as if the above wizard is bald?

 

[Lord Pendragon]

For instance, our now shirtless wizard has conveniently concealed the fact that he ever had a shirt to begin with. No amount of searching him can possibly reveal that he ever had the shirt. Substitute "shirt" for "contents of royal treasury", and it gets more interesting.

Well, if the wizard found a way to legitimately be "wearing" the entire royal treasury, I'd let him get away with it. At the end of the day, he can still only "absorb" equipment and gear, not anything he happens to be holding. Moreover, he can only absorb as much as he can wear/hold, which for the low-strength wizard isn't going to be a heck of a lot. No...overall this stratagem is much, much more risky than simply buying a bag of holding. Imagine the wizard's face when he gets hit with the next dispel magic, for instance.

And what happens to a wizard who sustains the loss of non-vital body parts and extensions in a manner which doesn't inflict loss of hitpoints, such as having his hair cut during an Alter Self effect? What happens to those components when they're removed from the altered wizard? Do they remain in that state until the spell expires, or do they immediately change back? What if the wizard does not have a corresponding part, such as if the above wizard is bald?

The parts return to their natural form as soon as they're separated from the wizard.

 

[Norfleet]

The parts return to their natural form as soon as they're separated from the wizard.

That's a reasonable example, but then what happens if the new part lacks a corresponding counterpart on the original wizard? The clipped hair COULD return to its natural form, for instance, except that the example wizard was bald and lacked any such. So where does it come from?

 

[Lord Pendragon]

That's a reasonable example, but then what happens if the new part lacks a corresponding counterpart on the original wizard? The clipped hair COULD return to its natural form, for instance, except that the example wizard was bald and lacked any such. So where does it come from?

I imagine it would fade away into nothingness, then.