D&D 4E Flying in 4e

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

So Aladdin was 18th level?

No, probably not. He got items that were very powerful, enabling him to do things he never had a chance of doing before.

 

[Gloombunny]

Aladdin was a 1st-level commoner in the most over-the-top Monty Haul game ever.

 

[TerraDave]

The never ending debate between simulationists and gamist...never ends...

The real trick to flying is missing the ground as you fall.

As we fly for the hollidays, I think this is important for all of us, even if we are not Arthur Dent.

 

[Pbartender]

A problem so common I can't believe they won't address it.

It's only a problem when flying an inanimate object... When riding a flying mount, that's what Mounted Combat and ranks in Ride are good for.

 

[HP Dreadnought]

Flight on mounts, carpets, etc. I'm ok with. But I'd really like to see them restrict or eliminate flying-type spells.

 

[Ahglock]

Flight on mounts, carpets, etc. I'm ok with. But I'd really like to see them restrict or eliminate flying-type spells.

God I hope not. I like flight spells, its been a part of a wide range of fantasy for me for a long time.

 

[Thundershield]

I can't say I'm a big fan of flight in D&D. Of course it belongs in the game somehow, seeing how it's a staple of the fantasy genre as much as the superhero genre, so I defend it's place in D&D, but in all my right to contradict myself, I don't want to see players flying around all the time either.

The big problem with flight is that it's effectively a form of immunity. As soon as you're able to fly constantly, you've made yourself immune to melee attacks from earthbound foes (by staying out of reach) and to the disadvantages and hazards of difficult terrain (by not touching it), both relatively common elements in a D&D game. The DM, knowing the players are effectively immune to such things, will have to rule anything that relies on that, from countless foes to interesting terrain-based encounters, out simply because the players would reduce that kind of challenges to next to nothing simply with the advantages granted by flight.

The same goes for Freedom of Movement and possibly Death Ward. Those things've been the death of grappling and anything negative energy-based since the dawn of D&Dkind..

Basically, anything that makes the characters immune (directly or by consequence) to relatively broad groups of challenges should be rather pricey... If for nothing else, then to make sure a characters doesn't end up immune to anything but divine retribution... That is, until they make a magic item that gives you immunity to that as well.

 

[TwinBahamut]

It's only a problem when flying an inanimate object... When riding a flying mount, that's what Mounted Combat and ranks in Ride are good for.

Of course, Mounted Combat and the Ride skill temselves are as big of a problem as the flight rules and grappling rules, and seriously need revision for 4E. Riding a horse is far more trouble than it is worth in 3E D&D, and this becomes far more problematic with an exotic mount. But, this problem deserves its own thread.

 

[Ahglock]

I can't say I'm a bit fan of flight in D&D either. Of course it belongs in the game somehow, seeing how it's a staple of the fantasy genre as much as the superhero genre.

However, the big problem with flight is that it's effectively a form of immunity. As soon as you're able to fly constantly, you've made yourself immune to melee attacks from earthbound foes

A tree does the same thing. Either you can deal with foes at range or you can't. If your foe can't a tree will save your butt about as often as the fly spell does. The only issue I have with flight isn't flight but the insane ranges on some spells. As long as you are well within basic range weapon categories when on offense I don't see it as an issue. Heck if you have some need that they always be in weapon range give the fly spell a flight ceiling or something. Claim its based on telekinesis and it pushes off the ground and after a certain distance from the ground there isn't enough force to push higher.

and to the disadvantages and hazards of difficult terrain, both relatively common elements in a D&D game. The DM, knowing the players are effectively immune to such things, will have to rule anything that relies on that, from countless foes to interesting tactical encounters out simply because the players would reduce any kind of challenge in such a fight to nothing with the power of flight.

Ok, I just don't see muddy ground as a big issue to for my adventures I guess, or a mountain. Terrain is more of a back story element to me not a large challenge to overcome. Besides you can easily open up airborne terrain hazards. Wind is much stronger in the air, there isn't any wind breaks to slow it down and you have nothing to brace your self against. Also any weather based problems other than fog usually are still in the air unless someone is flying really high. Heck even in 3e by the time you could fly in anyway that would disrupt these elements you were high enough level that I just don't see these things as appropriate challenges anymore. And the ones that were appropriate challenges generally flight did nothing to solve.

The same goes for Freedom of Movement and possibly Death Ward. Those things've been the death of grappling and anything negative energy-based since the dawn of D&Dkind..

Basically, anything that makes the characters immune (directly or by consequence) to relatively broad groups of challenges should be rather pricey... If for nothing else, then to make sure a characters doesn't end up immune to anything but divine retribution... That is, until they make a magic item that gives you immunity to that as well.

Eh spell casters solve problems with magic, skill dudes with skills etc. My only complaint has been classes like the fighter that don't have any way to solve dilemmas, and skills seem more limited to me than they should. Escape artist should be able to pull off a lot of the features of the freedom of movement spell IMO, for example.(not an epic person maybe it does at epic levels, I think it should be available sooner)

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

Back to the OP.. I agree that 3 dimensional combat would be nice to bring into play without the fuss of the current rules.

One thought for doing this would be skill checks, and ... assuming the SWSA split between skilled and unskilled uses ... this would allow a 'Fly' spell at 3rd level that ramps up with the caster. {The spell would basically grant an airborne speed and allow untrained skill checks.. as you invest skill points into the 'flight' skill.. you get better}

Skill tricks could include:
Wingover
Rapid climb
Swooping attack
tight turn
.. etc..

Same manuevers for swimming ...

Perhaps this thread should wander over to HR and we could make a 3.5 compatable version