D&D 4E Flying in 4e

[Mistwell]

The new Design & Development update states a Carpet of Flying is appropriate for 18th level adventurers, which tends to indicate to me that flying will be more restricted and a high-level affair. As to the rest I'm not sure, I don't really trust the designers to know what they're doing anymore.

It's a 15th level item in 3.5, and 3.5 levels go to 20. It's an 18th level item in 4.0, and levels go to 30. So how does this tend to indicate that flying will be more restricted and a high-level affair?

 

[HeavenShallBurn]

It's a 15th level item in 3.5, and 3.5 levels go to 20. It's an 18th level item in 4.0, and levels go to 30. So how does this tend to indicate that flying will be more restricted and a high-level affair?

Now that it's clear they're stretching out levels it doesn't mean they'll be more restricted in a relative sense, but in absolute terms yes it will be restricted compared to 3.5. Three levels difference, though I'd say 15th level was overvalued even in 3.5e. I've never been of the camp that flying made things easier, it doesn't, they merely exchange one set of hazards for another. Now I'll admit flying may seem to out-there superheroic for some people at the existing 3e levels but that's primarily a style concern.

 

[frankthedm]

But a Carpet of Flying has this advantage over spells, class abilities, or flying mounts: It doesn't need to rest.

But it has sucky AC and HP.

I am just hoping that the characters will rely on pegasi, wyverns, and giant eagles to fly, rather than magic spells

Same here. Sadly in D&D land your flying device needs a LOT of HP otherwise at high level, it's HP is now your HP, since if it leave combat, so do you.

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

I really hope flying gets nerfed. I doubt it will but I sure hope so. I can't stand how common magical flight is in 3E.

 

[AWizardInDallas]

One thing that pisses me off is that the only place underwater fighting is tackled is a few paragraphs in the DMG. NO where in Stormwrack does it talk about fighting underwater. That's a BOOK ABOUT WATER.

Hahah! This came up just this weekend for us too! I totally agree! The Rule Compendium didn't clear it up for us either.

 

[Gloombunny]

I really hope flying gets nerfed. I doubt it will but I sure hope so. I can't stand how common magical flight is in 3E.

Agreed. Flight is for superheroes, not adventurers.

 

[Klaus]

I hope there are rules for making flying menauvers *noy* automatic. Wanna perform a Wingover? Here's your Balance check, go nuts. Oh, you failed? There's the wall, feel free to hit it.

Nothing bigger than Small should be able to fly in an underground dungeon. A flying GArgantuan dragon should take 5 rounds to turn around and attack you again.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I hope there are rules for making flying menauvers *noy* automatic. Wanna perform a Wingover? Here's your Balance check, go nuts. Oh, you failed? There's the wall, feel free to hit it.

The real trick to flying is missing the ground as you fall.

A thing I find interesting is that fly is an ability that can "hurt" combat far less than non-combat situations.
The group fights in a dungeon - flying is nice, useful, but you can't really get away from all threats, and thus the challenge of the encounter is usually preserved.
The group needs to get around a large wall or a mountain - fly makes this easy. If you wanted to put this as a meaningful/challenging encounter in your adventure, fly negates that challenge fully, with no risks attached.

Even if you reduce the combat usability of fly spells (requiring concentration to fly, increasing penalties like with levitation and similar effects), you still haven't addressed the adventuring usability. The Swift Fly spells from the PHB II achieve a balance by reducing the duration significantly, but with the current spell system, they mostly lead to a spellcaster using it being exhausted even quicker than before.

 

[HeinorNY]

As to the rest I'm not sure, I don't really trust the designers to know what they're doing anymore.

Do you need to trust the designers to know what they are doing?

 

[Klaus]

The real trick to flying is missing the ground as you fall.

A thing I find interesting is that fly is an ability that can "hurt" combat far less than non-combat situations.
The group fights in a dungeon - flying is nice, useful, but you can't really get away from all threats, and thus the challenge of the encounter is usually preserved.
The group needs to get around a large wall or a mountain - fly makes this easy. If you wanted to put this as a meaningful/challenging encounter in your adventure, fly negates that challenge fully, with no risks attached.

Even if you reduce the combat usability of fly spells (requiring concentration to fly, increasing penalties like with levitation and similar effects), you still haven't addressed the adventuring usability. The Swift Fly spells from the PHB II achieve a balance by reducing the duration significantly, but with the current spell system, they mostly lead to a spellcaster using it being exhausted even quicker than before.

Flying creatures must navigate winds, updrafts, "rough air", etc, all the time. The weather can keep Colossal planes and Diminutive hummingbirds on the ground equally.

I think the system has to remind DMs that, once things get on the wing, these sorts of things must be taken into account.

DM: You see the mountain fortress of the Cloud Giant King.
Mage: Okay, I'll cast fly on myself and on Paladin's warhorse.
DM: As you fly towards the mountain, the strong winds that rebound off the mountain force you to make wide circles. Anyone trying to get closer to the mountaintop may hit the moutain wall instead.
Mage: Crap. Well, I guess we can fly halfway up, and then it's on foot from there.