Fochlucan Sage...

[RUMBLETiGER]

So what do YOU think when you say "Fochl(k)ucan Sage"?

I'm still confused about the OP.

I agree that when I hear "Sage", I first think Wizard. Archivist could pull off the title as well.

When I heal "Lyricist" I think Bard. Social skills, Extrovert.

So, If I take the Rogue/Bard/Druid combo and remove the Bard and insert a Wizard, I see a Rogue/Wizard/Druid. That happens to be incredibly beasty. Can fight, knows stuff, capible of doing whatever needs done, skillful... however is more Introverted, more studious, less Court Adviser, more researcher. Infact, Rogue/Wizard/Archivist (ditching Druid) fits "Sage" to me even better.

If Fochluchan lyrist is Indiana Jones the Adventurer, Fochluchan Sage is Indiana Jones the Professor.

That's my thought, from what I think it is you're asking.

 

[Empath Negative]

I belueve the druidic component and the bardic components are inextricable from the "theme" of the fochlucan. Keep in mind its still a bardic college and it seems unlijely the most learned folk (sages) wouldnt have access to the druidic language.

Then again... Can you really give a class three spell progressions.. Bard, wiz, druid?

 

[Loonook]

Why do they have to be that? The Bardic College needs those who maintain the knowledge of the College. In face, when I think of a Bardic 'sage' I would assume much more on the Knowledge side of things than I would on the "Wizard" side of things. I would personally like the idea of the Fochluran Sages being a group of Druidic Truenamers, who use the power of Truespeak in songs. They are given all of the stories of all of the greatest heroes and villains, and have the power to use it...

Now, to just make a Truenamer that doesn't suck....


Slainte,

-Loonook.

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

I belueve the druidic component and the bardic components are inextricable from the "theme" of the fochlucan. Keep in mind its still a bardic college and it seems unlijely the most learned folk (sages) wouldnt have access to the druidic language.

Then again... Can you really give a class three spell progressions.. Bard, wiz, druid?

...Then once again... I have no idea what this thread is asking. I don't know how to start with a title and then manufacture a build.

What are you meaning when you say Fochlucan Sage?

 

[Sekhmet]

[MENTION=6674868]RUMBLETiGER[/MENTION] Apparently he wants triple casting progression in Bard/Druid/Wizard.

Here is my suggestion.

[sblock=This Class is too Powerful]Reqs: Member of a bardic college.

Skills/lv: 20 +int mod.
Class skills: All but Heal.

15 level PrC, adds Fochlucan Sage level to any caster level to determine spells per day/spells known.
Saves: All Good.
BAB: Full
HP: 1d12

Adds Int and Cha to AC, Saves, Attacks, and Skills.
[/sblock]

To be more realistic, we could actually do a full casting progression for three types (Arcane, Arcane, Divine) if we dropped it from a 10 level PrC to a 3 or 5 level.

[sblock=This is a Reasonable Class]
Reqs: Skills: Decipher, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Knowledge (Nature) 7 ranks. Perform (String instruments) 13, Speak Druidic,
Alignments: Any Neutral.
Spells: Ability to cast 3rd level Arcane spells as a Specialist (Divination) Wizard who has access to the Illusion school. Ability to cast 1st level Divine spells.
Special: Bardic Knowledge, Wild Empathy.
-

Class Skills: Bluff, Concentration, Craft, Decipher Script, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Handle Animal, Heal, Knowledge (all), Listen, Perform, Profession, Ride, Sense Motive, Speak Language, Spellcraft, Survival, Swim.
6+ Int mod skills.

Class Features:
This is a 5 level PrC. (This might work as a 7 level PrC, but not as a 10.)
At each level, gain new spells per day and spells known in the classes that allowed you to meet the requirements for Fochlucan Sage. Does not gain benefit/blahblahblah/you know what this means.

Bardic Knowledge: Fochlucan Sage level stacks with Bard level to determine Bardic Knowledge checks.
Bardic Music: See above.

Unbound: The Sage can advance in any of the three classes that allowed him entry without an EXP penalty that would normally accrue.

Saves: Good Ref, Good Will, Poor Fort.
BAB: Average.

HP: D6.[/sblock]

 

[Empath Negative]

Ive been mulling it.

It would require specialist diviner, language druidic, bardic knowledge, bardic music, trackless step, 1st lvl divine, 1 lvl arc. Prep. And the harmonious casting feat.

You immediately and irrevocably lose any bardic spellcasting you previously had. Your bardic spells known are added to your druidic spell list and may be cast spontaneously as a druid would cast summon natures ally.

You would improve your druidic and wizardly spellcasting as normal but you increase your bardic spells known on your druid spell list as though you were a bard of equivalent level to your druid spellcasting level. The spells taken from the bardic spell list require charisma to determine the highest level you may cast and the save dcs.

Increases the levels of your animal companion and familiar as well as bardic music and knowledge.

Fey Grace: Adds charisma to saves and AC.

No weap or armor prof. Is not considered unbound.
D4
Poor bab
High will, low fort, low reflex
4 skills per.

 

[Sekhmet]

I don't think I'd ever allow a full casting druid/wizard with full companion and familiar progression. May as well just be a Gestalt Druid/Wizard.

Sort of feels like the bardic component is just thrown in to keep the flavor of Fochlucan Lyricist.
Remove companion/familiar progression, they don't really serve a purpose except to make the class even stronger (which is not necessary). They don't fit into the idea of a sage, and they don't fit into the idea of a collegiate bard.

With the druid/bard magic combination all you're doing is getting rid of spells per day (and not even that many). The class is MAD, which means that CHA modifier is just a detriment, but you'll get your WIS bonus in spells and most of the good Bard spells are buffs anyway. No downside, because you have an entire other spell list and spells/day from a Wizard to do the rest of your stuff.

4 skills/lv also does not fit the idea of a sage.

As a DM, I'd throw the class out the window.
As a player, I'd rarely pick something else if I wanted dual casting progression.

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

@RUMBLETiGER Apparently he wants triple casting progression in Bard/Druid/Wizard.

Be an Illithid Savant.

 

[Empath Negative]

I don't think I'd ever allow a full casting druid/wizard with full companion and familiar progression. May as well just be a Gestalt Druid/Wizard.

Sort of feels like the bardic component is just thrown in to keep the flavor of Fochlucan Lyricist.
Remove companion/familiar progression, they don't really serve a purpose except to make the class even stronger (which is not necessary). They don't fit into the idea of a sage, and they don't fit into the idea of a collegiate bard.

With the druid/bard magic combination all you're doing is getting rid of spells per day (and not even that many). The class is MAD, which means that CHA modifier is just a detriment, but you'll get your WIS bonus in spells and most of the good Bard spells are buffs anyway. No downside, because you have an entire other spell list and spells/day from a Wizard to do the rest of your stuff.

4 skills/lv also does not fit the idea of a sage.

As a DM, I'd throw the class out the window.
As a player, I'd rarely pick something else if I wanted dual casting progression.

Arcane Hierophant is off the table?

 

[Sekhmet]

Arcane Hierophant is off the table?

Arcane Hierophant offers only Animal Companion progression (though it gains the benefits a Wizard's Familiar might get, which isn't very much when combined with the Animal Companion list).

You are, however, fairly accurate. I don't allow dual casting progression, 10 level PrCs. I've tried a lot of methods of reducing the mundane/magic rift in my games (different point buy and partial gestalt, to name the ones that stuck), and allowing a Lv20 character to use 8 and 9th level spells in both classes has been no fun for anyone (except that one player). It is one of the reasons that Tier 1 and 2 casters don't get to gestalt in my games.

I understand that the DM shouldn't penalize one player for his choices, but when the rest of the party isn't having a good time for an entire six week campaign, then steps need to be taken.