Foiling the Silence spell

[Twowolves]

I made a mace wielding fighter once, weapon specialist, dressed in platemail and festooned with holy symbols/religious garb for the express purpose of drawing the silence spell. The enemy would Silence the "cleric", who would then proceed to walk up to the enemy spellcasters and pummel them senseless with his mace!

 

[MadJax]

I made a mace wielding fighter once, weapon specialist, dressed in platemail and festooned with holy symbols/religious garb for the express purpose of drawing the silence spell. The enemy would Silence the "cleric", who would then proceed to walk up to the enemy spellcasters and pummel them senseless with his mace!

I tried that in a Ravenloft game once, my poor fighter got disintegrated while charging the enemy spellcasters

 

[two]

I am wondering about the use of Silence as the ultimate counterspell. Your cleric readies an action to cast silence on the opponant spellcaster the next time they start to cast a spell. Assuming the opponant spellcaster misses their save, won't this stop pretty much counter any spell? And if you cast it on a rock in front of the spellcaster, doesn't it counter the spell even without a save?

YES.

Target a point in space = no save = enemy spell gone

 

[Bad Paper]

I don't agree, there - if the scroll (in its scroll case) is in your possession when you cast the spell, then the scroll (in the scroll case) is invisible.

Hmm. I thought that, once invisible, you can grab a visible object off a table and stuff it into your backpack, rendering it invisible. This indicated to me that invisibility is a "coating" or something. Hence my assumption that the scroll case is "coated" but its contents are not.

Either way, we seem to be in agreement that an invisible scroll cannot be read, yes? [barring see invisibility, I mean]

 

[Plane Sailing]

Have any DMs or players had interesting experiences or success in foiling a Silence spell cast on their spellcasters or the area? Besides Silent Spell feat, and guessing at which direction the spell ends quickest and running there, I mean.

My players of late have been blanketing areas with Silence, cornering spellcasters in and basically mopping the floor with them, as without their spells they're pretty darn helpless...

Nobody has mentioned the most sure-fire solution yet. Globe of invulnerability. Your spellcasters lead off with GoI and then fire out from there (protected by their meat-shields, etc). Attempts to cast silence at or near him will simply not affect him (or anyone within the globe).

 

[Jack Simth]

Mild problem with the (Lesser) Globe of Invulnerability:
The Heighten Spell metamagic feat.

It's only a mild problem, though, as unless your in a bit of an arms-race with someone, they probably won't think to Heighten it.

Of course, a Sorcerer with Silent Spell giggles (silently) at a Silence spell.

Spell Immunity debateably works, depending on whether the DM says the SR only applies to the target of the spell (the person carrying the Silence effect around the battlefield) or if it applies like normal to everyone it's trying to keep quiet. Of course, when Silence gets Heightened out of range, switch to Greater Spell Immunity, and if that fails, well... Spell Resistence? But this only works debateably, based on DM ruling as outlined above.

 

[kerbarian]

FWIW, we've house ruled silence. Spellcasters can still use verbal components (used but not heard) if they make a Will save.

I was thinking about this a little more, and it reminded me of a thread on a solar that had been hit with dominate monster (after his protective aura was taken down). I can't find it now... maybe it was lost with the crash? Anyway, the main debate in that thread was whether the solar would get a save vs. magic circle against evil if it was targeted on someone nearby rather than on the solar himself.

More generally, the question would apply to emanations that can be centered on a creature. If the spell allows a save, does only the target get a save, or does everyone within the emanation get a save? Looking at it now, silence is an area spell, not a targeted spell. It happens to be centered on a creature (or at least it can be), but the creature that it's centered on isn't actually a target of the spell. As an area spell, everyone in the area would get a save.

So what would it mean if you save against a silence spell? The area around you would still be silenced, but you wouldn't be. Does it mean any sounds you create can pass through the silenced area? Does it mean you can hear normally within the silenced area? At minimum, it would mean that you could still create sound, but that sound would be immediately stopped by the (still-silenced) air around you. Which sounds to me like enough to cast spells with verbal components.

Hmm... I'm starting to remember a little more about that solar thread. I remember making a similar argument about magic circle against evil being an area spell and it not going over so well. I don't remember what the arguments against it were, though.

But there's at least some argument in favor of your house rule actually being correct per the RAW.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Hmm. I thought that, once invisible, you can grab a visible object off a table and stuff it into your backpack, rendering it invisible.

Right.

"Items dropped or put down by an invisible creature become visible; items picked up disappear if tucked into the clothing or pouches worn by the creature."

But I don't think they so much "become invisible objects", as "are hidden inside an invisible object".

If there's a coin on the table and a coin in your pocket, and you cast invisibility, the coin in your pocket becomes invisible. If you pick up the coin on the table and put it in your pocket, it disappears. You then take both coins out of your pocket; one is invisible, one is visible. You put them both on the table, and now both are visible.

At least, that's how I've always read it.

Either way, we seem to be in agreement that an invisible scroll cannot be read, yes? [barring see invisibility, I mean]

Right.

Invisibility Sphere has a note "Those affected by this spell can see each other and themselves as if unaffected by the spell." Invisibility does not.

-Hyp.

 

[Hypersmurf]

More generally, the question would apply to emanations that can be centered on a creature. If the spell allows a save, does only the target get a save, or does everyone within the emanation get a save? Looking at it now, silence is an area spell, not a targeted spell. It happens to be centered on a creature (or at least it can be), but the creature that it's centered on isn't actually a target of the spell. As an area spell, everyone in the area would get a save.

Nope; Silence isn't "Will negates"; it's "Will negates; see text or none (object)".

The text makes it clear that if you cast it on an unattended object or a point in space, the save that applies is "None", and if you cast it on a creature, the save that applies is "Will negates; see text", with the 'see text' note necessary to explain that it's the creature the spell is centred on who receives the save.

-Hyp.

 

[moritheil]

Good grief, no one has mentioned metamagic rods of Silent Spell yet!

If your interpretation of Silence is strictly RAW, then enclosing the silent point or object will break its line of effect (that is, stuffing a silenced rock into a bag and closing the bag.) Of course, many people dislike this interpretation, for various reasons.