D&D 5E (2014) Followup on "Everyone Starts at First Level"

[Schmoe]

The only character I've ever played for an extended time started out at 1st level with the rest of the group at about 7th level. It was a 3E campaign, and they were playing through a 3E conversion of ToEE. I was playing a TWF Ranger and got involved in the fights from the get-go. I chose my fights and helped out where I could. Although I certainly had to be cautious for a bit, after three sessions I was 3rd level, and I never looked back. By the end of the campaign I think I was 10th or 11th level and the rest of the group was just one or two levels ahead. I felt a much stronger connection to the character having started from 1st than I would have if I had jumped in at 7th, so it worked for me.

For my own campaigns, I haven't really used the ES@1 policy, but I'm considering for my next!

 

[SirAntoine]

All characters should start at 1st level unless you're playing a one-shot adventure, in which case pre-generated characters are usually the way to go.

 

[hollowheel]

What about AOE damage? I don't think the problem is that the low level members can't contribute meaningful damage and heals, it's that they have zero chance of surviving a CR appropriate evil NPC's fireball (as one example). I'd suppose you either building encounters soft on such damage or purposefully not targeting the lower level PCs.

 

[GX.Sigma]

I'm also planning a campaign of this same style. I believe it's called an "open table sandbox," and I'm glad it's becoming so popular.

For my campaign, I'm considering the following rules:

If you're new, you start at 1st level. Basic classes only; no other character options. Roll stats in order and try not to die.
If your character dies (or retires), you roll a new character at the first level of the dead character's tier (the tiers are: 1-4, 5-10, 11-16, 17-20).
You get other perks for reaching the higher tiers, like strongholds, nonbasic classes, nonhuman races, backgrounds, feats, etc.

 

[S'mon]

What about AOE damage? I don't think the problem is that the low level members can't contribute meaningful damage and heals, it's that they have zero chance of surviving a CR appropriate evil NPC's fireball (as one example).

True in pre-4e D&D, I don't think it's so true in 5e. A fireball does 8d6, average 28. Failed save it kills a PC with 14 hp or less, most 1st level PCs, but 14 dmg on save will only kill PCs with 7 hp or less - that's probably just 1st level d6 hd PCs.
A level 10 Wizard can use a 5th level slot to fireball for 10d6 damage, average 35. Will kill PCs with 17 hp or less on a failed save, that's basically all 1st level PCs; 17 dmg on save will kill PCs with 8 hp or less - most d6 hd types and some d8 hd types, but the d10s and d12s will survive.

And after 1st level it rapidly gets very hard to kill PCs with one attack.

 

[CapnZapp]

I'm glad it is going well.

Of course, my concerns with ES@1 are not about the gap from 1st to 5th. It is more about 1st to 10th+ that I think would be problematic, in terms of work to maintain spotlight balance and interest on that person now playing the 1st level character among well-established, powerful heroes.

I would definitely do it the "everyone's at the same tier" way.

At the level of the OP there's no change. But later, there will be.

This way, once everybody else is fifth level or higher, new characters no longer start at level 1.

At least it will prevent the meaningless (and pretty much unavoidable) autodeaths a level 1 character will meet in a level 11+ adventure.

At that level, a dozen points of damage is a rounding error, and the only smart way to avoid it, is to not join the party.

And once the group is levels 11-15 or so, new recruits start at tier 3.

 

[the Jester]

Oops, sorry. Very nice encounter and balanced to medium (I assume the gnolls and such did not take part. The hydra is perfect in this case because each head averages 10 damage. Good story and good challenge. Nicely done.

Oh, the gnolls took part, all right- although their part was a running battle leading the pcs toward the hydra, which they expected to ignore them [the gnolls] (as they'd been trying to condition it)... which, you know, didn't end up working out too well for them.

 

[the Jester]

What about AOE damage? I don't think the problem is that the low level members can't contribute meaningful damage and heals, it's that they have zero chance of surviving a CR appropriate evil NPC's fireball (as one example). I'd suppose you either building encounters soft on such damage or purposefully not targeting the lower level PCs.

I put the onus of survival on the pcs; the levels involved really don't affect my planning much at all.

The group did fight a pair of winter wolves that a barghest was keeping so it could try to mate with them. The breath weapons were perhaps the scariest moment for the party yet! But again, despite having several level 1 pcs with them, nobody died- the winter wolves breathed on the pcs in the front line that were tactically sound at the time, and that turned out to be a raging level 2 barbarian and the level 5 paladin. Both lived- the barb probably wouldn't have if he'd been taking full damage from the goblins' and worgs' attacks, but hey, raging resistance- and the pcs managed to pull that one out, too.

So far, I don't think AoE is a huge factor. We'll see- eventually the party will fight some spell-slinging fireball maniac or a dragon- but so far, it hasn't been an issue.

 

[KarinsDad]

All characters should start at 1st level unless you're playing a one-shot adventure, in which case pre-generated characters are usually the way to go.

Why?

One player loses his mid to high level PC either due to dumb blind luck, or the bad choices of another player and that player should be penalized with "Go back to square one".

Meh.

I find this POV to be the anti-fun one. It's as if the DM is penalizing the player for playing his PC, let alone for taking risks and making the game more memorable.

 

[hollowheel]

True in pre-4e D&D, I don't think it's so true in 5e. A fireball does 8d6, average 28. Failed save it kills a PC with 14 hp or less, most 1st level PCs, but 14 dmg on save will only kill PCs with 7 hp or less - that's probably just 1st level d6 hd PCs.
A level 10 Wizard can use a 5th level slot to fireball for 10d6 damage, average 35. Will kill PCs with 17 hp or less on a failed save, that's basically all 1st level PCs; 17 dmg on save will kill PCs with 8 hp or less - most d6 hd types and some d8 hd types, but the d10s and d12s will survive.

And after 1st level it rapidly gets very hard to kill PCs with one attack.

Sure a 1st level PC CAN survive a fireball IF the spell rolls average AND they make a save. The point is that damage scaling in 5E goes up abruptly at 5th.

In my own game, my PCs are now 5th, but they recently took a liking to a 1st level "henchmen" who they bring along everywhere-- like a lucky charm. He is knocked unconscious every single fight, and has only survived due to a few lucky die rolls. I'm not a killer DM by any means. I'm just putting the pcs in level appropriate fights.

It sounds like this works in a lot of campaigns. But I can't imagine how without fudging rolls and creating soft fights.