Forced Moved and Size Differential

[Corax]

Hi all:

I know that in black letter law, size differentials do not matter when it comes to forced movement in combat, but I confess it hurts my brain when a tiny creature can somehow push or pull a gargantuan one. We've been discussing how to address this in our 4e group, and as GM I don't want to screw up anyone's character build, but I can only suspend my disbelief so far. How are others handling this issue?

Ken

 

[Flipguarder]

The answer you will get here is that "push" and "Pull" don't necessarily mean i push my body against yours and that forces you in a certain direction due to both my weight and strength. Frankly imo, bull rush does mean that, but most powers and feats could easily be described as "I cause the tarrasque to move back by destabilizing his leg muscles and jamming my sword in a weak spot on his front leg"

 

[DracoSuave]

Plus it helps to think in relative terms.

Pushing a goblin a square is a fair distance to that goblin.

Pushing a terrasque a square is... very little compared to the rest of the terrasque.

 

[chitzk0i]

There are a number of push effects that specify a size restriction, like Tide of Iron. After about 11th level, they probably gave up because by then you're awesome enough it just works.

 

[keterys]

In a lot of cases, the thing to realize is that creatures in D&D are not standing completely still in the middle of a square. Many of these forced movement effects are you causing a creature to lose balance, suckering it in to a mistaken movement, using its momentum against itself, etc.

All forms of media are filled with examples of smaller creatures luring bigger ones into missteps, falls, slides, bashes into walls... end of the day you just need to expand the possibilities you can imagine. Forced movement is almost always a good thing, in terms of fun.

 

[Neuroglyph]

In a lot of cases, the thing to realize is that creatures in D&D are not standing completely still in the middle of a square. Many of these forced movement effects are you causing a creature to lose balance, suckering it in to a mistaken movement, using its momentum against itself, etc.

All forms of media are filled with examples of smaller creatures luring bigger ones into missteps, falls, slides, bashes into walls... end of the day you just need to expand the possibilities you can imagine. Forced movement is almost always a good thing, in terms of fun.

I think you hit it exactly right - there are plenty of instances in movies where smaller beings make bigger ones stagger, or trip, or take a misstep, and it has nothing to do with mass, but more to do with guile.

Like Ewoks and AT-ATs - all it took were a few logs

 

[Destil]

There are a number of push effects that specify a size restriction, like Tide of Iron. After about 11th level, they probably gave up because by then you're awesome enough it just works.

I wouldn't complain if tide got rid of it at epic, myself. And as errata, not a feat...

 

[Victim]

The other thing is that often large size means more ability to move in a single stride. The giant staggering around is stumbling with giant sized strides, carrying him further than the person in the same position. Making that big monster take a few steps back is roughly equivalent to launching a person several body lengths.

 

[Nifft]

I wouldn't complain if tide got rid of it at epic, myself. And as errata, not a feat...

Agreed.

Cheers, -- N