Forced Movement

[Grim Hawk]

So I'm an Artful dodger Rogue, new to D&D (and obviously 4e) and I've come across some issues with forced movement.

1. It says you can't move them into walls, i dont see why not? cant they just take some damage and go prone?

2. I can't find anything on moving them into friends/enemies? can i throw one through a friends square off a cliff? can I hurl him at my enemies and end up with two prone zombies?

3. Can I throw them into barred or locked doors in order to force them open? Can I use them to set off traps? Can i move them in circles? Can i follow them?

4. How do you best like to use forced movement to your advantage

Thanks in Advance!

 

[OnlineDM]

1. Well, you can move them into walls, but it doesn't do anything according to the rules. No damage, no prone. Some DMs use a house rule that does exactly what you suggest (when you're pushed against a wall and there's still more to the push, you take something like 1d6 damage for each extra square of the push and get knocked prone), but that's just a house rule.

2. The rules as written (RAW) are fuzzy on this point, and there have been several threads on this exact topic in the past few months. The way I run it is that each creature whose square you want to force someone through can decide whether to allow the forced movement through their square or not. So, your ally would probably sidestep the bad guy that you're pushing through them an off a cliff, while another bad guy would probably put out an arm (or tentacle) to stop the movement.

3. You can try moving them into doors; it might not do anything useful, but it's worth a shot! If there's a trap that triggers when someone enters a particular area and you know about it, feel free to shove them into that area and set off the trap. Moving them in circles depends on the type of movement (with a push, every square has to take them farther from you; with a pull every square has to bring them closer; with a slide you can move them in circles). And you can only follow them if the power says so (some powers say that you push someone a square and then shift after them), or if you use a move action once you're done pushing them.

4. Cliffs are good, as you've mentioned. Throwing people off ships is fun. Positioning someone into a flank can be awesome, and it can also be helpful to push someone away from a fragile ally.

Welcome to 4e - have fun!

 

[the Jester]

2. You can force-move an enemy through any square it can normally enter, so that includes their allies' squares but not your allies' squares.

 

[Destil]

1. It says you can't move them into walls, i dont see why not? cant they just take some damage and go prone?

When you say walls, do you mean walls in the literal sense, or walls in the 'Powers defined as Walls' sense? You can't push them into real walls, but you can push them into wall spells, which may allow a save depending on the wall in question.

3. Can I throw them into barred or locked doors in order to force them open? Can I use them to set off traps? Can i move them in circles? Can i follow them?

The big thing to remember is watch your Push/Pull/Slide.

Every square of moment from a push must make the target end farther away than they started. Every square of movement from a pull must make the target end closer than they started. Anything goes with slides.

 

[Colmarr]

4. How do you best like to use forced movement to your advantage

Online DM gave some good answers to this question, but one he missed is: move the enemies into the area that the party controller is just about to nuke!

 

[erleni]

Or move them into damaging areas. Wall powers have been mentioned but there are a bunch of "zone" powers that deal damage upon entering or starting the turn there.
I run a strange assassin/barbarian that uses the combo between Well of Shades/Spectral Assailants and Slash and Slash again. First pulls the enemies close to you, then you can hit one with the barb power and then as soon as they start their turn you can deal some other damage (and if the assassin power you used is Spectral Assailants you can even slide them into a wall (like wall of shadows).
It can be pretty deadly.

 

[Nullzone]

While we're on the subject, what's the general take on forced movement into damaging zones/walls? They aren't hindering terrain by definition, so RAW they don't get to save...but I find that a bit cheesy since most creatures can see the 3x3 spinning vortex of flame or whatever and thus give them the standard "save and fall prone adjacent" effect.

Prone is still a terrible condition to inflict on any non teleporting creature so I think it's pretty balanced, what say ye?

 

[OnlineDM]

I grant creatures saving throws to avoid being moved into damaging zones/walls, just as if they were being pushed off a cliff.

 

[keterys]

2. You can force-move an enemy through any square it can normally enter, so that includes their allies' squares but not your allies' squares.

You'll see hefty table variance on this one, fwiw, so just ask your DM and go with what he says.

 

[BuzzardB]

I grant creatures saving throws to avoid being moved into damaging zones/walls, just as if they were being pushed off a cliff.

I do this combined with the 1d6 damage per "force" of the push.

Like if a monster is beside a wall and gets pushed 3 spaced into the wall he will get a saving throw to avoid it and if that fails then 3d6 damage.