Forgotten Realms before 2ed: world map?

[Mercurius]

It was with 2nd edition, if I remember correctly, that TSR decided to paste their numerous secondary campaign settings onto the Forgotten Realms, namely Kara-Tur, Al-Qadim, and Maztica. What I wonder is this: Have we ever seen a world map of the FR (beyond Faerun and as presented in the first FR box set) before this awkwardly strange move by TSR? What does the world of Ed Greenwood's creation look like without the meddling of TSR? (I guess the Moonshaes would have to go, too).

And how did they rationalize the similiarity in cultures between Al-Qadim and Calimshan? Was Calimshan a colony or something?

 

[Mercurius]

Well I partially answered my own question http://www.defragsrealms.com/times/archive/ftedint.html, where Ed reveals that he had a Moonshae Isles, but they weren't so Celtic. Also, I didn't realize Damara and Vaasa were also added in.

 

[S'mon]

Ed Greenwood:
"It was over a decade of real time before they reached 7th and 9th levels,
and a lot of the color and detail of Cormyr, the Dales, and Zhentil Keep that
you see has been due to their adventures..."

I think that's really cool; this article really impressed on me how slow level advancement allows for growth - both of the PCs, and of the world they inhabit. To me it's striking how Ed Greenwood could be such a great GM in some ways, at the same time as having such an appalling DMPC as Elminster pop up to save/lecture the PCs at the most inappropriate moments:

He was always 'unavailable' when the players wanted him to train them, give them
this or that handy information, or defend Shadowdale, but he'd pop in as they
struggled up to their necks in a flooded dungeon, fighting skeletons who were
attacking underwater, and remark (Merlin-style accent from the movie EXCALIBUR,
please): "Well, THERE ye are! This is another fine mess ye've gotten yourselves
into, isn't it? If you'd found that secret door three rooms back, of
course...but ye didn't, being bold adventurers, so--strewth and stop me vitals--
I'm afraid ye're all just going to have to...die."

As a player that would have driven me nuts and made me want to strangle both Elminster and Ed.

Edit: By contrast Merlin in the movie Excalibur (Ed's reference, above) I thought was really well done, more of a secondary protagonist/PC than DMPC.

 

[RichGreen]

Oriental Adventures

It was with 2nd edition, if I remember correctly, that TSR decided to paste their numerous secondary campaign settings onto the Forgotten Realms, namely Kara-Tur, Al-Qadim, and Maztica. What I wonder is this: Have we ever seen a world map of the FR (beyond Faerun and as presented in the first FR box set) before this awkwardly strange move by TSR? What does the world of Ed Greenwood's creation look like without the meddling of TSR? (I guess the Moonshaes would have to go, too).

And how did they rationalize the similiarity in cultures between Al-Qadim and Calimshan? Was Calimshan a colony or something?

Kara-Tur was actually mentioned in the Old Grey Box (1e), but wasn't part of Ed's Forgotten Realms. I can't remember the rationale for Calimshan and Zakhara, but there was one.

Cheers


Richard

 

[Mercurius]

Kara-Tur was actually mentioned in the Old Grey Box (1e), but wasn't part of Ed's Forgotten Realms. I can't remember the rationale for Calimshan and Zakhara, but there was one.

Really? I don't remember that. I guess Kara-Tur was already in existence through the 1ed Oriental Adventures, so it makes sense.

I'd love to see an Ed Greenwood map of Toril. I'm assuming he didn't add Kara-Tur et al to his campaign, but who knows.

Anyone know anything else?

 

[Walt C]

Really? I don't remember that. I guess Kara-Tur was already in existence through the 1ed Oriental Adventures, so it makes sense.

I'd love to see an Ed Greenwood map of Toril. I'm assuming he didn't add Kara-Tur et al to his campaign, but who knows.

Anyone know anything else?

IIRC, Kara-Tur was originally intended to be on Oerth (which was jarring, since Greyhawk was on an eastern continent as well; GMs would have to do quite a bit of map-filling to allow the PCs to sail from Greyhawk to Kara-Tur. It would be the rough equivalent of setting a game in China, with no knowledge of the rest of the world, and having a new supplement that describes America east of the Mississippi).

I also recall Ed saying that his "Great Glacier" extended much further south. It was actually rolled back to uncover Vaasa and Damara.

Also, I believe it was stated that the area southeast of the Realms map was intentionally being left alone for DMs to develop in house campaigns. Regardless, it was eventually filled in.

Walt