D&D (2024) Forgotten Realms Player Guide

[Weiley31]

Late to the party here, but my experience is more often that the Harpers in D&D are straight-up the CIA as presented in a lot of popular fiction (I won't comment on realistic or otherwise said fiction is), where they're aggressive interventionists, operating with zero mandate, zero legality, zero regard for the laws or really the people of the area they've decided to operate in, and doing what basically amount to pre-emptory political assassinations and extraordinary rendition (black bagging, kidnapping, whatever you want to call it), as well as massive thefts and all sort of violence, murder and mayhem. Just with a huge amount of self-righteousness about it and elaborate self-justifications as to why it's wrong this guy to kill people but super-okay for them to do it.

And that's when they're being presented as the good guys by TSR and WotC...

Don't forget all the bloody reformations they seem to go thru and how part of it even split off into its own separate rival faction.

 

[Henadic Theologian]

Don't forget all the bloody reformations they seem to go thru and how part of it even split off into its own separate rival faction.

When did the CIA ever have a faction that split off and went out on its own?

 

[Weiley31]

When did the CIA ever have a faction that split off and went out on its own?

Moonstars

The Moonstars, also known as the Tel'Teukiira, the Silverstars, or the Twelvestars, were a highly secretive group of individuals formed by Khelben "Blackstaff" Arunsun in the late 14th century DR with the aim of unifying the humans and other races (especially elves) against the forces of...

forgottenrealms.fandom.com

 

[Ruin Explorer]

When did the CIA ever have a faction that split off and went out on its own?

You seem to have missed where I pointed out the Harpers resemble how the CIA is portrayed IN FICTION.

I'm not sure I can make it any clearer than bold, all caps and big text. Should it be bright blue as well?

The CIA in fiction frequently has sub-factions and factions that are working against the rest of the CIA or the like. It's a common plot in spy fiction, whether it's 24 or Bourne or whatever (in 24 Season 2 it was actually the NSA, but same difference). There are often breakaway units too in fiction too. Add in CIA characters in fiction often giving "I'm doing a dirty job for freedom and liberty!" speeches (whether good guys or bad guys, it's just meant to be understood differently in the latter case!), and you have another big similarity. Harpers love to go on about how they're doing it for the greater good when it looks awfully like they're engaged in a blood-drenched proxy war with the Zhentarim!

It's funny to me because when I read the Harper's original goals back in the early 1990s, before Code of the Harpers even I think, they seem laudable:

1) Preserve lore and prevent it from being destroyed.
2) Balance nature and civilization.
3) Protect the innocent from evil.

But pretty much immediately they started straying into other territory, and at some point in the 1990s this "preserve individual liberty" thing came in (I think it's a result of focusing on point 2 of the Harper code and ignoring the rest), I don't know where from, but which obviously potentially conflicts with those three to a significant degree, and that's what a lot of later Harper stuff has focused on, and which on makes them more fictional CIA-like.

 

[Henadic Theologian]

Moonstars

The Moonstars, also known as the Tel'Teukiira, the Silverstars, or the Twelvestars, were a highly secretive group of individuals formed by Khelben "Blackstaff" Arunsun in the late 14th century DR with the aim of unifying the humans and other races (especially elves) against the forces of...

forgottenrealms.fandom.com

I was talking about the actual CIA, not the Harpers, I know about the Moonstars already.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I was talking about the actual CIA, not the Harpers, I know about the Moonstars already.

Given I've repeatedly pointed out the comparison is to the CIA IN FICTION, not the actual CIA, why were you making that comparison?

 

[Henadic Theologian]

You seem to have missed where I pointed out the Harpers resemble how the CIA is portrayed IN FICTION.

I'm not sure I can make it any clearer than bold, all caps and big text. Should it be bright blue as well?

The CIA in fiction frequently has sub-factions and factions that are working against the rest of the CIA or the like. It's a common plot in spy fiction, whether it's 24 or Bourne or whatever (in 24 Season 2 it was actually the NSA, but same difference). There are often breakaway units too in fiction too. Add in CIA characters in fiction often giving "I'm doing a dirty job for freedom and liberty!" speeches (whether good guys or bad guys, it's just meant to be understood differently in the latter case!), and you have another big similarity. Harpers love to go on about how they're doing it for the greater good when it looks awfully like they're engaged in a blood-drenched proxy war with the Zhentarim!

It's funny to me because when I read the Harper's original goals back in the early 1990s, before Code of the Harpers even I think, they seem laudable:

1) Preserve lore and prevent it from being destroyed.
2) Balance nature and civilization.
3) Protect the innocent from evil.

But pretty much immediately they started straying into other territory, and at some point in the 1990s this "preserve individual liberty" thing came in (I think it's a result of focusing on point 2 of the Harper code and ignoring the rest), I don't know where from, but which obviously potentially conflicts with those three to a significant degree, and that's what a lot of later Harper stuff has focused on, and which on makes them more fictional CIA-like.

Okay I really don't read or watch alot of CIA in fiction so I'll take your word for it.

 

[Henadic Theologian]

Anyone else hope they add some FR races to the setting like Saurials, Wemics, Shades, etc...?

 

[Corinnguard]

Anyone else hope they add some FR races to the setting like Saurials, Wemics, Shades, etc...?

That would be neat.

 

[TravDoc42]

Anyone else hope they add some FR races to the setting like Saurials, Wemics, Shades, etc...?

I'd also love some saurial stat blocks, too!!