Forgotten Realms print rpg products in 2011?

[Shin Okada]

You haven´t read FR 4e, have you? Because 99% of what you hate is gone.

I did read 2FR 4e books. Yep, they didn't mention much about "famous NPCs". But most of the NPCs are still meant to be there. Though Elminster went mad, I suspect that WotC will eventually let him redeem and we will see that super-serviceable uber-mage again.

And FR still have rules simply stronger than standard ones. See how FR-specific backgrounds (only) are stronger than usual ones. And see how many power gamers had chose Tempus as their patron deity, even after the update. What is worse, those "advantageous" rules are just stronger than standard and tasteless. Not as interesting as, say, rules shown in Eberron, which have strong tie with unique and interesting backgrounds which, for me, are good enough to import into each DM's own "standard 4e D&D world".

On the other hand, If they nerfs down all of those "characters in FR are stronger" rules, and remove "famous places shown in novels and such, which are also famous heroes' territories", then, FR lacks significant unique aspects as a separate fantasy world. Are there any reason to choose FR instead of standard D&D world at all?

Oh, I love Swordmage and allowing my players to use that class. But there seem to be no reason, other than commercial ones, to introduce that class in FRPG.

 

[vaultdweller]

I did read 2FR 4e books. Yep, they didn't mention much about "famous NPCs". But most of the NPCs are still meant to be there. Though Elminster went mad, I suspect that WotC will eventually let him redeem and we will see that super-serviceable uber-mage again.

And FR still have rules simply stronger than standard ones. See how FR-specific backgrounds (only) are stronger than usual ones. And see how many power gamers had chose Tempus as their patron deity, even after the update. What is worse, those "advantageous" rules are just stronger than standard and tasteless. Not as interesting as, say, rules shown in Eberron, which have strong tie with unique and interesting backgrounds which, for me, are good enough to import into each DM's own "standard 4e D&D world".

On the other hand, If they nerfs down all of those "characters in FR are stronger" rules, and remove "famous places shown in novels and such, which are also famous heroes' territories", then, FR lacks significant unique aspects as a separate fantasy world. Are there any reason to choose FR instead of standard D&D world at all?

Oh, I love Swordmage and allowing my players to use that class. But there seem to be no reason, other than commercial ones, to introduce that class in FRPG.

Most of the FR NPC's have died of old age in 4e. Drizzle's still around, but his other adventuring companions have passed on. Greenwood's Gandalf is still alive and crazy as you noted (and I don't think they can ever kill him off while Greenwood lives), but almost all of the other Chosen are dead.

Forgotten Realms backgrounds are no more powerful than Scales of War backgrounds. FR and SoW backgrounds are really the only backgrounds it makes any sense to have - the other, generic background format serves no real purpose. It would have been better to just say, "Every character can either gain a +2 to any skill or make any skill a class skill." FR and SoW backgrounds actually let you use a background to customize your character, which other backgrounds do not.

And as for campaign settings that have power creep in their rules... I'm guessing you've never looked at Dragonmarks or Dragonshard Augments from Eberron, or you wouldn't be complaining about FR power creep. Those Eberron elements are more powerful than anything the FR setting brought to the table in 4e.

 

[Klaus]

I did read 2FR 4e books. Yep, they didn't mention much about "famous NPCs". But most of the NPCs are still meant to be there. Though Elminster went mad, I suspect that WotC will eventually let him redeem and we will see that super-serviceable uber-mage again.

And FR still have rules simply stronger than standard ones. See how FR-specific backgrounds (only) are stronger than usual ones. And see how many power gamers had chose Tempus as their patron deity, even after the update. What is worse, those "advantageous" rules are just stronger than standard and tasteless. Not as interesting as, say, rules shown in Eberron, which have strong tie with unique and interesting backgrounds which, for me, are good enough to import into each DM's own "standard 4e D&D world".

On the other hand, If they nerfs down all of those "characters in FR are stronger" rules, and remove "famous places shown in novels and such, which are also famous heroes' territories", then, FR lacks significant unique aspects as a separate fantasy world. Are there any reason to choose FR instead of standard D&D world at all?

Oh, I love Swordmage and allowing my players to use that class. But there seem to be no reason, other than commercial ones, to introduce that class in FRPG.

Just FYI, the current issue of Dungeon has an Elminster Must Die! encounter, where you can personally off the old coot (he's level 19, btw).

 

[Nymrohd]

I never got the Super NPC problem in FR. It is pretty clear that the Super NPCs would never be able to take care of adventurer issues since they are utterly dwarfed in numbers by the number of super villains. The problem with FR imo is that 3E glut demystified the setting. I used to have a massive list of things I'd love to know about FR history. Now I have nearly nothing. An adventuring game requires mystery about the past. Judging from the Last Mythal trilogy, any elf wizard should be able to inform you of 10 millenia long of history with ease (and if one should complain about something in the realms, it's not the NPCs but the elves).

 

[Shin Okada]

Most of the FR NPC's have died of old age in 4e. Drizzle's still around, but his other adventuring companions have passed on. Greenwood's Gandalf is still alive and crazy as you noted (and I don't think they can ever kill him off while Greenwood lives), but almost all of the other Chosen are dead.

Those two characters are the top 2 reasons I never ever play in FR

Forgotten Realms backgrounds are no more powerful than Scales of War backgrounds. FR and SoW backgrounds are really the only backgrounds it makes any sense to have - the other, generic background format serves no real purpose. It would have been better to just say, "Every character can either gain a +2 to any skill or make any skill a class skill." FR and SoW backgrounds actually let you use a background to customize your character, which other backgrounds do not.

I have quite opposite experience. Yeah, I am using PHB2 or other backgrounds as just examples (and actually, they are). When I DM, I just tell my players to make up background stories of their PCs, then either make one skill into a class skill or have +2 bonus to one skill. It is working perfectly. Encouraging players to make their character more alive. Be more creative and imaginative. And when a player can't think of a good one by himself, picking up one shown in the book will give him a shortcut. Some of the players are not good at that kind of thing and that is fully acceptable. On the other hand, generic background rule is indeed good enough to either compliment a character's or party's weakness (say, paladin lacking athletics skill or no one in the party is good at nature knowledge roll) or strengthening one's speciality (say, having really high perception skill).

Another problem of FR backgrounds is that many of them are tied to certain area of Toril. If a DM want to use not-so-well-supported part of Toril as his adventuring ground, players will find that they cannot have background as strong as those regional backgrounds. Also, the very existence of regional backgrounds discourage players to choose their PCs place of birth freely or from RP reason, as coming from a certain region makes his PC stronger. That is really annoying.

Regarding Scales of War backgrounds. SoW is just a campaign, not a full world setting. Those rules are meant to be used when and only when you play that campaign. So comparing those rules to rules in big world settings are inappropriate IMHO.

And as for campaign settings that have power creep in their rules... I'm guessing you've never looked at Dragonmarks or Dragonshard Augments from Eberron, or you wouldn't be complaining about FR power creep. Those Eberron elements are more powerful than anything the FR setting brought to the table in 4e.

Some of the Dragonmarks seem to be very strong. But if you use them in Eberron campaign setting, those are tied to very interesting background story of the world and also restrict PCs in some way (socially, or for RP purpose). Eberron is different from standard "medieval" or "dark age" like fantasy world. That is a much modern world in witch social relation are more important. So IMHO, as long as we play in Eberron, with dragonmarks, we can have different and interesting gaming experience. If we are using different world-setting, it is something better banned by the DMs. Regarding Dragonshard Augments, I am allowing PCs to buy them, and having no problem at all. Those magic items are useful but not uber-powerful comparing to magic items of the same level.

And, as a world setting, FR is, and always has been, just "another fantasy world". That has been the biggest and the inherent problem of this world setting. Why on earth do we need another fantasy world, which is basically not significantly interesting nor different from plain sword-and-sorcery world at all, but with not-so-well-balanced-against-core rules? Because you can make stronger PCs in that world? Bah! If the alternative world is different and interesting enough like Eberron, Darksun, Ravenloft and such, I am interested in. But tasteless FR? Just because that is the world of well-sold novels? No way!

 

[scylis]

The big name heroes of any setting only overrun and crowd out your characters as much as your gaming group and DM allow them to.

 

[SPECTRE666]

The Neverwinter Campaign Guide by Matt Sernett, Ari Marmell, Matt James, and Erik Scott dieBie. Could be more. So does anybody know when this book will be out?

 

[Derulbaskul]

The Neverwinter Campaign Guide by Matt Sernett, Ari Marmell, Matt James, and Erik Scott dieBie. Could be more. So does anybody know when this book will be out?

Fantastic: That's a great group of writers!

(I also hope we see a decent map or maps to make up for the bum-wipe version that came with the FRCG. We need either Mike Schley or Sean McDonald.)

 

[jbear]

I did read 2FR 4e books. Yep, they didn't mention much about "famous NPCs". But most of the NPCs are still meant to be there. Though Elminster went mad, I suspect that WotC will eventually let him redeem and we will see that super-serviceable uber-mage again.

And FR still have rules simply stronger than standard ones. See how FR-specific backgrounds (only) are stronger than usual ones. And see how many power gamers had chose Tempus as their patron deity, even after the update. What is worse, those "advantageous" rules are just stronger than standard and tasteless. Not as interesting as, say, rules shown in Eberron, which have strong tie with unique and interesting backgrounds which, for me, are good enough to import into each DM's own "standard 4e D&D world".

On the other hand, If they nerfs down all of those "characters in FR are stronger" rules, and remove "famous places shown in novels and such, which are also famous heroes' territories", then, FR lacks significant unique aspects as a separate fantasy world. Are there any reason to choose FR instead of standard D&D world at all?

Oh, I love Swordmage and allowing my players to use that class. But there seem to be no reason, other than commercial ones, to introduce that class in FRPG.

Hmmm... I skim read both FR source books the first time I read them... I was immeadiately inspired by the magical cataclysm. Cyric is a very inspiring source of action. A mad version of Vecna in my mind.

Just recently I reread the Campaign Guide. Its got some cool stuff, and very unique. A lost world collided with Toril, smashing it to pieces, and leaving an entire continent of an alien world in its wake. There is a powerful primordial slumbering but whose servants are earnestly preparing the way for its return and eventual confrontation with the Dragon Kings that presently rule this continent, and of course the gods themselves.

Theres more stuff. Good stuff. I've found it very inspiring. And unique.

As for Drizzt and his friends, I think a hundred years later its fine to assume they are no longer relevant unless you really want them to be.

 

[jimmifett]

Backgrounds were introduced with scales of war and FR, before PHB2. They are a tad powerful, and backgrounds weren't really 'corrected' until PHB2/ECG.

Of course, backgrounds are entirely optional in any setting. If you are the DM and don't like them, don't include them. If you require your chars to build chars in CB, you'll notice backgrounds are optional there as well.

FR to me is better than a red hot poker in the eye (Eberron ftw), but if one is letting optional rules, famous heroes from a past edition (and 100 years in the past), and a pantheon get in the way of making a world one's own and adding your own stuff, doesn't sound like a DM i'd want to play with. How does anyone one KNOW what happens to someone who doesn't believe in a deity? I smell divine propoganda... I think a campaign could be built around figuring out exactly what does happen.