D&D General Forgotten Realms: Real World Gods Still Present in the Old Empires

[Zardnaar]

Well, I checked my copy, and he does use that alias

Damn I read the wrong line. I read allies vs alias. Derp nevermind I blame ze French.

 

[Zeromaru X]

There is no reason to believe Enlil isn't still there.

On the other hand, there are no reasons to believe he is there, either.

 

[Parmandur]

Doesn't it drive you nuts who spell check has a monotheistic bias, you clearly were trying to say Enumeration of Gods plural, but the spell check got you. It used to do that to me, till I beat spellcheck defiantly into submission.

Not particularly, no.

 

[Parmandur]

On the other hand, there are no reasons to believe he is there, either.

It depends on your version. Options abound.

 

[Henadic Theologian]

While Bahamut is unmentioned in these books, he has been mentioned in all the relevant books lately, including the 2024 DMG and The Book of Dragons (that includes a lot of updated Realmslore for dragons). So, he still exists in the 2024 "canon". He and Corellon aren't given the spotlight in the new books because they are not part of the Faerûnian pantheon, just as the Egyptian gods are just name dropped in the Mulhorand entry and nothing else (including the non-accurate "Horus-Re" name that gives me OCD, lol).

The only one who seems to be completely non-canon for 5e is Enlil, as he is not mentioned in any of the 5e sourcebooks (not 2014, neither 2024). But, this kind of makes sense, as the novels he appears in seem to have been ignored in the new books.

As for the other stuff, it seems that 5e 2024 is kinda deemphasizing/sanitizing the religious aspect of the gods, but that's with all gods, not just the racial ones. Even the entries in the 2024 DMG are scarce.

The novels are Canon, by contract.

Enlil is likely not mentioned, but because the remnant Dragonborn cities are an after thought, with only the Capital getting a mention.

They really had very limited room for such a huge setting, because they blew so much room on Faction Mechanics even FR Adventurer's League doesn't want to use and short adventures that should have been in a separate dedicated book. Honestly it should have had at least Pantheon Tables.

Again they really expect the SCAG & FR wiki to do alot of the heavy lifting her.

They do, do enough to give the rest of the setting enough heft compared to the SCAG. The Faerûn Atlas does alot of the heavily lifting too, although it leaves alot if questions as well, like is Skyclave still an Imaskari city or did Mulhorand Conquerer it, why is Sultim in the Arcane Empires region instead of the Old Empires Region? Did Thay take it?

I think I would give these books combined (as I don't view them as a separate product) as a 6.5 to 7, to be generous.

Which does sound great until you realize that makes it the third highest score I'd give to a 5e book, after Eberron: Rising From the Last War and Waterdeep: Dungeon of the Mad Mage.

I do not have high standards for 5e lore, and so I'm relieved these books didn't completely suck, they are merely highly flawed, but with some really cool stuff in them and they get the basic job done, which was never a certainty.

I feel like that I not only didn't hate the books, but even enjoyed them is a huge success.

 

[Alzrius]

The novels are Canon, by contract.

My understanding is that WotC thinks otherwise.

And if you meant that "Ed Greenwood's original contract specifies that Realms content (written by him) is canon," then all I can say is that I've heard variations of that for decades now, always with differing details, and I've never found it credible. I'm aware that Ed himself has (if I recall correctly) said this, and as far as I can tell he's either he's having some fun with us or he's misrepresenting/misunderstood what's there. It certainly wouldn't be the first time someone has gotten a contract wrong despite being party to it.

 

[Demetrios1453]

They referred to Chessenta as worshipping Alien Gods & Demigods, then only really mention an example Tchazzar & Entropy.

Traditionally Chessenta really worship a mix of Faerûn & Mulan Gods, Tchazzar being an extension of Tiamat & Entropy either being an extension of Shar or a Primordial that ate like half of Chessenta.

I will say its been hinted at Chessentans also worshipping special hero Demigods, but that never seemed to get elaborated on.

Also they only mentioned a few of the Mulhorandi Gods as examples, its clear its nit intended to be the whole list.

Between not exploring the Demihuman, Mulan, and Draconic Gods in the Gods chapter, I would not take a lack of mention of individual Gods as being they aren't there anymore. They expect the FR wiki to do ALOT of the heavily lifting in lore terms. The digital version literally links to the FR wiki as if it was an extension of the books themselves.

The funny thing is I was expecting these book to make the SCAG redundant, but instead it feels like the SCAG feels like it should have been the 3rd book of the Ultimate Bundle, as it covers a whole bunch of things these books don't and vis versa. Like Demihuman Gods, Southern nations like Dambrath, Halruaa, Luirien, Durpur, etc..., as well as mentioning Zakhara and Kara Tur.

There is no reason to believe Enlil isn't still there. Heck maybe he's trying to get enough favours from other powerful Gods to rebuild his Pantheon.

The various mentions of the various Mulan deities wasn't in any organized manner; it was much more off-handedly. Also Isis and Osiris weren't mentioned either, and they should have been. It was all very ad hoc.

 

[Zeromaru X]

The novels are Canon, by contract

"Were" canon is more accurate to say. Around 2018, they came with this gem, in which they basically said "every expression of D&D has their own canon" (I still remember the uproar it caused), freeing the writers to write what they want without worrying about following a continuity.

So, yes, while the novels may be canon, they are only canon for themselves, since 2018. They are not necessarily canon for the sourcebooks. Erin Evans' novels aren't the only ones these book ignored, they also ignored RAS' novels, too (for instance, Yarin Frostmantle is still alive and ruling Damara, despite being killed by Jarlaxe in one of the Drizzt's novels). If they ignore their best-selling author, I really doubt any other author is being given special preference.

Of course, you can still use the lore from the novels if you want, the Pinkertons aren't going to appear in our houses (for now, at least), but that doesn't mean we have to assume the writing team at WotC is doing the same. They may or they may not. And the evidence so far is that indeed they are not.

Again they really expect the SCAG & FR wiki to do alot of the heavy lifting her.

Yet, they contradict the SCAG with these books. Not only with Tymanther, but with a lot of regions. Calimshan, for instance. They expect the SCAG and the wiki serve as background, but their new lore is a new thing.

 

[Parmandur]

"Were" canon is more accurate to say. Around 2018, they came with this gem, in which they basically said "every expression of D&D has their own canon" (I still remember the uproar it caused), freeing the writers to write what they want without worrying about following a continuity.

So, yes, while the novels may be canon, they are only canon for themselves, since 2018. They are not necessarily canon for the sourcebooks. Erin Evans' novels aren't the only ones these book ignored, they also ignored RAS' novels, too (for instance, Yarin Frostmantle is still alive and ruling Damara, despite being killed by Jarlaxe in one of the Drizzt's novels). If they ignore their best-selling author, I really doubt any other author is being given special preference.

Of course, you can still use the lore from the novels if you want, the Pinkertons aren't going to appear in our houses (for now, at least), but that doesn't mean we have to assume the writing team at WotC is doing the same. They may or they may not. And the evidence so far is that indeed they are not.




Yet, they contradict the SCAG with these books. Not only with Tymanther, but with a lot of regions. Calimshan, for instance. They expect the SCAG and the wiki serve as background, but their new lore is a new thing.

Yes, it is pretty clear that WotC is not bound by any concerns of canonical metaplot anymore, and hasn't been for quite some time. For one, I am very glad about their current rational policy.

 

[Henadic Theologian]

"Were" canon is more accurate to say. Around 2018, they came with this gem, in which they basically said "every expression of D&D has their own canon" (I still remember the uproar it caused), freeing the writers to write what they want without worrying about following a continuity.

So, yes, while the novels may be canon, they are only canon for themselves, since 2018. They are not necessarily canon for the sourcebooks. Erin Evans' novels aren't the only ones these book ignored, they also ignored RAS' novels, too (for instance, Yarin Frostmantle is still alive and ruling Damara, despite being killed by Jarlaxe in one of the Drizzt's novels). If they ignore their best-selling author, I really doubt any other author is being given special preference.

Of course, you can still use the lore from the novels if you want, the Pinkertons aren't going to appear in our houses (for now, at least), but that doesn't mean we have to assume the writing team at WotC is doing the same. They may or they may not. And the evidence so far is that indeed they are not.




Yet, they contradict the SCAG with these books. Not only with Tymanther, but with a lot of regions. Calimshan, for instance. They expect the SCAG and the wiki serve as background, but their new lore is a new thing.

That was none senseical completely, and a silly nonescenical blog post is never going to trumped by an actual legal contract with Ed Greenwood. The blog post was basically Chris Perkins covering for Jeremy Crawford and failing when FR fans flipped out over Jeremy saying there is no canon. Just ignore it, the original contract with Ed dictates what is and is not canon to FR, not a pair of guys who are now gone and working for Darrington Press.