Forgotten Realms VS. Eberron. Which should I run?

[Christopher Lambert]

I dunno I think this is an interpretive illusion. I don't find magic to be very common in any 3e game. I think the commonality of magic is simply part of the story the DM develops.

The players are covered in magic items. I don't think that's part of the story the DM develops

Yeah, great idea, at work I will stop doing stuff because my boss can do web application security better tham me. I figure he can do the job for me. Oh wait, he has other, bigger fish to fry, like really complicated exploits. Hrm. Maybe I should keep doing stuff. The flaw in the above logic is that while it correctly assumes that there is a number of dogooders of varying skill level, it fails to consider that there is an equal and opposite number of dobadders. The assumption being that the only problem in the world is one confronting the players.

Web security application isn't fatal, last time I checked.

FR was supposed to be about the villains, and it doesn't feel that way. The villains always lose, frequently because they're being stared down by incredibly competent, intelligent and powerful do-gooders who are way better than them and, oh yeah, fated to win anyway.

This is a result of metagame thinking. The player knows that in real life the DM probably only has one problem to throw at the player characters. So what the player does is projects this real world knowledge into the game and assumes that said challenge is the only one of consequence at the moment in the game world. This is when the question as to why the uber characters are not taking care of said problem arises. If we re-examine the nature of the world we find that there are many other problems pressing the resources of those who fight for "good" in the forgotten realms.

Lets see, we have the problems with City of the Spider Queen, we have the Phaerimm, we have the Zhents up to their old tricks, we have King Olbuld Many Arrows prepping to take over stuff in the north when millions of march out of the Spine of the World because there is not enough food in the mountains, we have the machinations of the behind the scenes events of the Thayans, The Yuan Ti, and the Xanthanr's Guild, we have the cult of the dragon consolidating power around the Well of Dragons, we have Cormyr in chaos because the king is 3 and too many people want the throne, and the list goes on.

Yeah, the Uber characters can handle all that. Sure. /sarcasm. If it were just one guy with a lot of power causing the big problem, then yeah, the chosen or whoever could take care of it. But almost all of the operations listed above are happening on an organisational or distributed scale. There are just too many evil doers for 12 really poerful people to take on.

Its the age old superman question. If you are superman, who do you help first? You are not going to be able to get everywhere and stop every evildoer or save everyone. The same is true for the Uber NPCs. Achilles can only kill one man at a time. He still needs an army to win the war.

FR is filled with multiple powerful do-gooders. If there was only Elminster, he couldn't deal with all this. But a quick do-over of the Heroes' Lorebook gives you good-aligned Chosen of at least two deities, not to mention 20th-level kings, archmages of multiple kingdoms, cities with at least six archmages, cities with 8 or 9 paladins who might as well be Chosen, cities run by good-aligned Chosen...

You're still playing second fiddle in that setting.

Well see thats the problem. There is no FR pantheon. There are the FR Pantheons. The gods in FR are made up of pantheons that have clashed, been absorbed, killed off and mixed up. In truth this is very realistic its a pattern that shows up all over our world. I mean Mithras was Babylonian but he was worshiped by many many Romans. The Romans did not all worship the Roman gods. There were numerous cults from different cultures all over the empire.

Yeah, realistic, right down to the species war and magic.

But the reason Greek mythology is so great is because the Greek gods do all the stuff you said the Eberron gods didn't. Oh wait we were talking about the FR deities... who behave the exact same way. Hmmmm...

You should check out the Egyptian pantheon. It's a lot smaller.

 

[Prince of Happiness]

I'm not helpful: I like my version of the Shining South.

 

[jester47]

The players are covered in magic items. I don't think that's part of the story the DM develops

Yes, it is. If I don't want my players to have a magic item, they don't get it. Period. There is nothing about 3e that says your characters should have X ammount of magic. You can assume that from the "fair wealth table" that they are supposed to have X ammount of stuff, but thats just so they can keep pace with the monsters. No, not in my games. The fact that I can state the previous sentence and have it be true indicates that your above ascetation is patently false. Rule 0.

Web security application isn't fatal, last time I checked.

I was talking about responsibilities. It would be the same if I was a power line worker.

FR was supposed to be about the villains, and it doesn't feel that way. The villains always lose, frequently because they're being stared down by incredibly competent, intelligent and powerful do-gooders who are way better than them and, oh yeah, fated to win anyway.

This is in the novels only. Of course the main characters are fated to win, the plot is on thier side. In your game it is as different as the DM wants it to be.

FR is filled with multiple powerful do-gooders. If there was only Elminster, he couldn't deal with all this. But a quick do-over of the Heroes' Lorebook gives you good-aligned Chosen of at least two deities, not to mention 20th-level kings, archmages of multiple kingdoms, cities with at least six archmages, cities with 8 or 9 paladins who might as well be Chosen, cities run by good-aligned Chosen...

Right, so thats what maybe a couple of thousand powerful (level 10+) dogooders? Vs the multitudes of Zhentarim, a number of Yuan Ti Lords equal to the number of 10th level + do gooders, etc etc. There are more problems in the FR than there are 10th level + do gooders to deal with.

You're still playing second fiddle in that setting.

Only if you put stock in the novels and your DM wants you to.

Yeah, realistic, right down to the species war and magic.

We seemed to have erradicated Homo Erectus pretty well in this world pretty well. Why can't people try it in FR? Sorcerers and Witches were known in greek times too...

You should check out the Egyptian pantheon. It's a lot smaller.

[/QUOTE]

And used in FR.

Eberron is not what its detractors -- or even an unbiased cursory glance -- would make it out to be. It really is possessed of a lot of interesting depth and is definitely set up for both high adventure (pulp) and very mature RP gameplay (noir). It's hard to over-recommend it.

Forgotten Realms is not what its detractors -- or even an unbiased cursory glance -- would make it out to be. It really is possessed of a lot of interesting depth and is definitely set up for both high adventure (pulp) and very mature RP gameplay (noir). It's hard to over-recommend it.

Its funny, I can find this to be true of any campaign setting. I think if you find a setting to not fit this description you are doing one or more of several things: Letting someone elses (DM or Author's) perception shape yours, not reading enough of the setting material, not really making an effort to understand it, or failing to coallate all its contents.

FR was/is a great setting. But it got hurt by its novels and 2nd edition. Wilderlands of course is the best, because it has no novels, never was 2e, and is mouldable enough to be what any DM wants it to be. But just because I think Wilderlands is a better setting does not make FR a bad one. It is very usable and very versitile. And as they keep rewriting it for 3e it becomes less and less what its detractors claim it to be. FWIW Chris- 10 years ago I would have agreed with you. 17 years ago I would have disagreed. Now I disagree because the realms got fixed.

Aaron.

 

[Darkness]

a quick do-over of the Heroes' Lorebook gives you good-aligned Chosen of at least two deities, not to mention 20th-level kings, archmages of multiple kingdoms, cities with at least six archmages, cities with 8 or 9 paladins who might as well be Chosen, cities run by good-aligned Chosen...

A lot of that was because of TSR's policy that evil must be dumb.

Fortunately, WotC did a lot to fix that in 3e.

Azoun IV (the 20th-level king) is dead and Cormyr has lost quite a bit of its prowess and glory.
Bane is back.
The Zhentarim are probably stronger than ever. (Manshoon is a badass now. Fzoul is a Chosen. They secretly control their former rival, Mulmaster. And so on.)
The shades are back.
The Red Wizards have finally started acting smart.
A lot of minor evil organizations (e.g., People of the Black Blood) have cropped up as well.
Kiaransalee has become stronger.
Orcus is worshipped as a deity.
There's much more evil, and a bit less good, than in previous, TSR-tainted editions.

 

[Doug McCrae]

Wow, only nine posts before the witless show up.

Please refrain from personal insults.

 

[Doug McCrae]

It was clearly insulting.

No. It. Wasn't.

 

[Doug McCrae]

Eberron = good
Best Forgotten Realms = bad

 

[Darkness]

Hey Doug, it's cool that you're trying to help but Henry already addressed the problems in this thread. Let's move on.

 

[The_Gunslinger658]

Hi-

To the original poster; FR is a great setting, Eberron is also a cool setting, in fact there are alot of parts in Eberron I like, the Artificer, Sharn, Changling and so on. This is stuff I plan to add to my FR campaign. I could see the city of Sharn as an underdark Drow stronghold. The Warforged as a cylon type of race trying to eradicate all living things, the ideas are limitless.

So buy both products and mix them up, heck, throw the city of Greyhawk in for good measure. ; )


Scott

 

[Gundark]

Thanks for the input

Well I talked to my group and asked them what they wanted. We considered Iron Kingdoms however since the world book isn't out yet we decided to hold off on that. We took a good look at Eberron and considered that while it is definetly a cool setting we thought that something that was familiar was what we wanted in the end. So we chose to go with FR for now. I think I will pick up the Eberron book eventually. The whole uber -powerful PC in FR doesn't bother me. I use them to help the storyline along not to steal the story away. I can see of the patheon in FR is annoying. The Gods in the Iron Kingdoms sounds similar to Eberron. They give spells and influence clerics but they are never involved directly with the inhabitants of Caen. Anyhow I'll stop Iron Kingdoms pimping.