Forked: Some rules clarification for my 3rd ed Warlock

[Dandu]

What about the DCs?

If your invocation shape allows for a DC, calculate it based off the shape. If the essence allows a DC, calculate it based off the essence. If you use a shape and an essence, the enemy has to make 2 saves.

 

[LordVyreth]

What about the DCs?

If your invocation shape allows for a DC, calculate it based off the shape. If the essence allows a DC, calculate it based off the essence. If you use a shape and an essence, the enemy has to make 2 saves.

I figured as much. Given that the eldritch blast is treated as a "spell" as the same level as the highest effect on it, I wanted to make sure that the DC is still based on the effect that granted it. So if I had "Frightful Blast" and "Eldritch Chain," for example, the DC would still be only 12+mod. Worth asking, though. I'll assume my guess on metamagic spell like ability effects is accurate as well, then, unless I hear otherwise.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Actually, eldritch blast is always a level 1 spell equivalent, which can be trouble if there's spells like Globe of Invulnerability up. Each essence and blast shape has a spell level listed, though, and the EB gains that spell level (or the higher of the two, if applying both types to one EB). So the essences and blast shapes are also useful for the increased spell level.

 

[LordVyreth]

Actually, eldritch blast is always a level 1 spell equivalent, which can be trouble if there's spells like Globe of Invulnerability up. Each essence and blast shape has a spell level listed, though, and the EB gains that spell level (or the higher of the two, if applying both types to one EB). So the essences and blast shapes are also useful for the increased spell level.

Oh, I know that. I do have the errata, though I did miss the part about EB being clarified as an invocation until reread it. My question related to the spell level is the DC of the effect. Frightful Blast would make the spell a 2nd level one, and Eldritch Chain would make it 4th level. Would the DC for a Blast with both effects (which only requires a DC for the Frightful Blast,) be 12+mod or 14 + mod?

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Honestly, I'm not entirely sure since essences and blast shapes aren't true stand-alone spell-like abilities (they're riders on EB), so it's possible that you could use the higher DC from Chain. I think the intent was that save DCs would be based from the effect being used, so even with Chain it would still be DC 12 + cha. Again, not like Warlock's some sort of broken killing machine, I wouldn't really mind ruling the other way...

 

[LordVyreth]

I'm amazed there's any ambiguity on the subject at this point. The warlock's been around for years now, and it's probably the most popular of the expanded core classes, especially if the inclusion in 4th edition is any indication.