Forked: The Great Dungeons & Dragons Monster Roundup

[Kaodi]

Forked from the Preserving the Past thread: http://www.enworld.org/forum/genera...-10-18-2011-legends-lore-preserving-past.html

Take this quote from Hussar:

I have to admit, this is the first one that kinda leaves me cold. Sure, there's TONS of great stuff from back in the day. I know that. But, there's a reason a lot of stuff fell by the wayside - a lot of it wasn't very good. Sturgeon's Law applies to monsters as much as anything else.

Yes, I realize that someone, somewhere may be using the C.I.F.A.L. as a lynchpin of their campaign, but, just because someone is using it doesn't make it good.

There's a reason some things get changed. Take the "trap monsters" from AD&D as an example. By 3e, these had either largely disappeared or been changed quite a lot (Green Slime being a prime example - it goes from being a monster to being a trap. And the Piercer->Darkmantle evolution for another.)

Just because someone, somewhere, at some point in time thought something was a good idea doesn't necessarily make it so. There is a danger of wearing nostalgia glasses when looking at past stuff and not judging it with an objective point of view. Not that this will necessarily happen, but, honestly, I wouldn't really care if Thouls (for an example) never made it into another edition.

In light of this whole question of old monsters, I think we should perhaps just go through all of the old monster books and figure out what has changed, and what has stayed the same. And down the line, we can perhaps start revising and rebuilding the old monsters no one likes into ones that may be liked more.

This should be immensely useful for this task: Lists of Dungeons & Dragons monsters - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Broadly speaking, there are a couple of categories of changes that we can talk about: name changes, where a monster has been rebranded in later editions; flavour changes, where a monster has changed in appearance, style, and story; and mechanical changes where a monster just does some things radically different than to, like how dragons gained and then lost spellcasting, for instance. Mechanical changes are probably going to be somewhat less important for this purpose, except where they relate to flavour changes.

Also, I think it is important to keep in mind which monsters are mostly unique to D&D and which ones are in the popular consciousness. Because for all of the talk about " weird " and " nonsensical " monsters with crazy names, the fact is that no sane non-D&D vet is going to think an aboleth is anything other than weird and nonsensical, despite the fact that it is a classic D&D monster at this point. You need to go deeper to figure out why many such monsters do not gain traction.

Now, unfortunately my own AD&D Monster Manual (1st Ed.) is sort of buried right now, so I am going to have to just go with monsters that I can remember the differences of off the top of my head, but hopefully it will be enough to get things started.

So...

Baluchtitherium: more or less renamed the dire rhinocerous
Giant Beaver: dropped, I think, though it would be called dire beaver
Displacer Beast: got a lot skinnier and somewhat less panther-like
Dragons: gained extra abilities beyond breath weapon and frightening presence
Dryad: partially altered into a sort of female treant that can disguise itself
Ear Seeker: dropped?
Gnome: more fey-like and less dwarf-like
Green Slime: as was mentioned, now more of a trap than a monster
Groaning Spirit: just called Banshees now
Irish Deer: I do not even remember these..., probably JADA (Just Another Dire Animal)
Hippocampus: does not seem very popular of late
Kobold: everyone remembers how these guys used to be more dog-like, and that they were basically turned into dragon-obsessed reptiles later on
Lamia: changed from being a cross between a sphinx and a centaur into a fey beetle lady
Lizard Man: renamed Lizardfolk
Lurker Above: not sure how this was changed
Giant Lynx: JADA
Masher: what?
Merman: renamed Merfolk
Neo-otyugh: The name was dropped, I believe.
Ogre Mage: renamed, not inappropriately, Oni Mage
Giant Otter: JADA
Piercer: trap now?
Giant Sea Horse: dropped a long time ago
Shedu: apparently this appeared in the newer Fiend Folio
Slither Tracker: gone?
Strangle Weed: gone?
Su-Monster: apparently this finally got updated last year; any changes?
Titanothere: JADA
Water Weird: changed into a one of a group of female elemental oracles

Okay, so that list is not really as complete as it could have been. I left out most of the monsters I thought were more or less the same (I suppose you could say skeletons and zombies now come in a zillion different varieties). I hope it is enough to give an idea of what I am shooting for though. Lists and more in depth discussion of individual monsters are welcome!

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Which previous edition book was the giant beaver in? 1E MM2?

 

[howandwhy99]

Which previous edition book was the giant beaver in? 1E MM2?

MM1 page 9.

Why are you looking for a giant beaver anyway?

 

[Tonguez]

so whats wrong with the Cifal?

Just off the top of my head

Adherer
Trapper (the floor monster)
The bunny-on-a-treestump monster!!!!
Brain mole
Rhemorraz

 

[Jimlock]

MM1 page 9.

Why are you looking for a giant beaver anyway?

SURPRISE ATTACK

 

[Argyle King]

I think what needs to change (if anything) about an old monster is going to depend heavily upon what game you are playing. Some of the ideals that D&D 3E/Pathfinder are built on are quite different from the ideals that D&D 4E are built on; as such, certain things will be more (or less) acceptable in those games. The rust monster is a pretty good example.

If you're not playing D&D at all and instead converting an old module and/or old monsters to a completely different system (GURPS, Savage Worlds, etc) the same point holds true, but even more so.

 

[Kaodi]

I do not suppose anyone could supply a list of monsters in the 4th Edition MM2 and MM3? The Wikipedia article does not seem to get that far...

 

[Kaodi]

Also, perhaps it would be prudent to just ask what old monsters everyone thinks are completely useless and dumb and thus ripe for a reimagining...

 

[Huw]

Regarding the JADA's. In AD&D some of these were actually races. The Giant Beavers, Giant Lynx's, Giant Owls, Giant Eagles and Giant Spiders were all intelligent and had their own culture and languages, as did Worgs (but not Dire Wolves). The Eagles and Spiders were obviously Tolkien inspired, and the Beavers Lewis. Not sure about the Lynx and Owl.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Why are you looking for a giant beaver anyway?

If I explain, it'll just sound like bragging.