D&D 4E Forked Thread: Al-Qadim, Land of Fate 4e

[Kitsune180]

love it!

 

[Philosopher]

Hi Philosopher, and welcome to the ENWorld boards!

Thanks

Armor - That's simple and it works. I was thinking Endurance checks with escalating penalties (perhaps a fatigue track like how diseases/poisons work in 4e), but that might be too complicated.

Yes, the reason I decided to just extend the pre-existing rule on non-proficiency is that it's simple.

However, I've thought a little bit more about this. The classes that rely on armor would seem to be at a disadvantage. Here are a couple of suggestions on how to handle that:

1) Classes with heavy armor proficiency could get a bonus to AC as a class feature. This may have to scale with level. The only problem, however, is that they'd get the bonus to AC with the cost of encumbrance or movement penalties.

2) Perhaps a Parry feat can be added that grants a bonus to AC. The problem with this, though, is that all classes would equally able to take this feat. Unless, perhaps, it had some sort of prerequisite?

In any case, I hope this issue doesn't make things too complex, since, as I said above, I'd like to keep it simple.

Regarding the classes - I like the descriptions Quickleaf and Dr. Strangemonkey give for the barber, merchant, etc. That makes them fit the 4e standards better.

I'll give some thought to putting together some class build from the master list Quickleaf provided. Over the next week or so, as time permits, I'll see what I can come up with for that (or regarding other ideas).

 

[Quickleaf]

However, I've thought a little bit more about this. The classes that rely on armor would seem to be at a disadvantage. Here are a couple of suggestions on how to handle that:

How about an additional -2 check penalty wearing heavy armor? Then each build with access to heavy armor could address this in its own way - no extra benefits, rather alternate class features.

For example, take "fighter weapon talent" (+1 attack with either one-handed or 2-handed weapons). A comparable feat is "nimble blade" (+1 attack with light blades when you have combat advantage). Thus, I think it's safe to say "fighter weapon talent" is superior, worth two feats. So a Zakharan fighter might instead have Defensive Mobility & Improved Initiative. Hmm maybe it's really worth 1.5 feats, but you get the idea.

Edit: I added a table of contents in the first post.

 

[Dr. Strangemonkey]

Hmm.

I'd be tempted to say that heavy armor uses up a healing surge if you wear it for more than an hour or in heavy combat.

Then you can slap on even more healing surge penalties in the right environment.

Maybe you could use Endurance checks to resist the surge leak.

This is in line with the current environmental effects, and does nothing to muck about with the basic math of the classes.

There's also a nice decision branch with this as the classes that rely most on Heavy Armor are also the ones with the most healing surges. Which hits a nice range:

A Paladin who wears heavy armor is only mildly disadvantaged.

A Paladin who forgoes heavy armor only has a mild advantage.

Same with fighter and cleric, but...

in the right environment it suddenly becomes a tactical choice, because at some point the heavy armor becomes de-optimized to the point where wearing the light armor is a viable choice again. Or wear you really have to adjust your overall strategy to accommodate the heavy armor and rest more often.

On the other hand, for Rangers and Rogues and all the other classes for whom heavy armor should never be a viable choice in Al-Quadim it really becomes a non-viable choice.

And for borderline classes like the Warlord or Cleric the choice to go heavy armor represents a suitably greater commitment. Suddenly being a Warlord in leather or Cleric in cloth doesn't seem so bad or weird.

 

[Quickleaf]

Posted my first shot at a cover image for our project.

A word about builds. As I convert the kits into builds I am keeping role-playing concerns the priority, which sort of seems ironic since a build is about emphasizing certain mechanics. While I am providing alternate class features, more than that I am revising the concepts to give them their own unique feel. For example, "askars" have been reimagined as legacy warriors bearing a proud tradition...and also perpetuating blood feuds. Also, I'm setting up each build to have a group of built-in tensions, conflicts inherent to the build's station in Zakhara and the character's psychology. Once we have the builds done I'll write up a DM article talking about the choices facing each build and how to offer role-playing dilemmas as the build advances.

4e creates this battlemap mindset. What I'm hoping to do is twist the very "game" elements of 4e into roleplaying tools, to make 4e work for the AL-QADIM setting, rather than the other way around.

I'd be tempted to say that heavy armor uses up a healing surge if you wear it for more than an hour or in heavy combat.

Then you can slap on even more healing surge penalties in the right environment.

Maybe you could use Endurance checks to resist the surge leak.

This is in line with the current environmental effects, and does nothing to muck about with the basic math of the classes.

Simple, effective, I like it!

 

[Dr. Strangemonkey]

So.

According to the Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide, the Spell-Plague happened in Kara-Tur as well as Faerun. So logically it must have affected Zhakara.

What would Zhakara look like in the wake of such an event?

Cause just on the face of it, I think it would be pretty freaking bad.

But I also wonder why they haven't mentioned Zakhara when Maztica and Kara-Tur both got specific shout outs.

Ya think they got specific plans for Zakhara?

 

[Quickleaf]

So.

According to the Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide, the Spell-Plague happened in Kara-Tur as well as Faerun.

What would Zhakara look like in the wake of such an event?

Cause just on the face of it, I think it would be pretty freaking bad.

Right. That's been the topic of conversation over at the WotC thread, which was interestingly moved from the "Other Published Worlds" forum to the "Running the Realms" forum. It's clear to me that Zakhara is officially going to be part of the FORGOTTEN REALMS, whether or not it retains the AL-QADIM IP/identity. WotC probably wouldn't release any AL-QADIM setting until after the more popular DARK SUN. So 2009 Eberron, 2010 Dragonlance or Greyhawk, 2011 Dark Sun... Unless it's a supplement for FORGOTTEN REALMS we're not going to see any AL-QADIM support from WotC for several years (assuming they stick to their production schedule). That said, I think a Dragon magazine article or two is highly likely.

While I like the new take on genasi, I don't have anying nice to say about the 100 year plot advance and the Spellplague. I don't think AL-QADIM fans have any interest in such a radical change to the setting. Honestly, besides the handle of us, I've gotten I get the sense that AL-QADIM fans aren't very active on the internet, have left gaming, or have no interest in 4e. I've heard at least on AL-QADIM fan say that 4e is a wargame and kills role-playing. Of course I don't agree with that, but the sentiment is out there.

So, we have to make a decision about our goals with this project:

1. Leave story out of it, update just the rules
This is the minimal effort approach, nothing fancy, just a direct translation, and leave the story to the DMs

2. 30-40 year advance, "Feuding Heirs" concept
Use a different timeline which keeps old fans connected but opens up new options for them, balance between 4e and AL-QADIM

3. Official FORGOTTEN REALMS timeline
Become the banner for AL-QADIM 4e as Planewalker.com did for Planescape, get published in Dragon magazine, detail effects of Spellplague on Zakhara, advance timeline 100 years

I'm for #2. Any other ideas?

 

[Dr. Strangemonkey]

Well, my own temptation would be to develop the Spell Plague as an optional event.

That would parallel the old Zakhara is an optional addendum to the Realms protocol.

There's some passion for Al-Quadim out on the net. Wolfgang Baur at least found enough people to fund a patron project last year.

But it may be that that passion is centered more on Arabian Adventures as a general concept than as a specific setting.

For the moment, I think the Spell Plague is an interesting thing to consider as an event, but were we to do it I would want it balanced by a major Al-Quadim event so that not all huge changes were blown in from Faerun.

 

[Quickleaf]

Well, my own temptation would be to develop the Spell Plague as an optional event.

That would parallel the old Zakhara is an optional addendum to the Realms protocol.

There's some passion for Al-Quadim out on the net. Wolfgang Baur at least found enough people to fund a patron project last year.

But it may be that that passion is centered more on Arabian Adventures as a general concept than as a specific setting.

For the moment, I think the Spell Plague is an interesting thing to consider as an event, but were we to do it I would want it balanced by a major Al-Quadim event so that not all huge changes were blown in from Faerun.

So you're for the +100 year advance, right?
One angle we could work the Spell Plague is "Breaking of the Djinni Seals" in which a huge number of imprisoned djinn are released, and all djinn contracts are rendered null and void. They are seen riding great storms of flame and lightning, leaving the sky stained with indigo hues in their wake (a Zakharan aurora borealis). Vendettas against the sha'ir who bound them are taken on the sha'ir (if living) or on their descendants. The oldest ones rival the Djinn Lords in power but are forbidden from returning to Jinnistan and may stake a claim to their own fiefdoms. Introduce the genasi as having always been in the background, but now becoming more prominent in the wake of the progenitors' liberation. Well, that's all I've got for now...

 

[Hodag]

If I have any say in this, I vote for either 2 or most preferably 3. Zakhara needs an outside world to interact with, and the Realms actually work fairly well to support it. Of course, there is Calimport <cough...cough>, but without odd and foolish foreigners from over the seas, it loses some of the cultural-comparison I always loved.

The Realms has always struck me as the most interesting and well-realized world/setting that TSR/WotC has ever marketed. Its vastness means that lots of unusual styles can be plugged in, without tragically destroying the Realms or the plugged-in addition's charm and character. Zakhara, Kara-Tur, and even Maztica have their fans, but without being able to be attached to the Realms or another heavily supported setting, their potential for actual game usage by the "average" group plummets.