[Forked Thread: How Important is Magic..?] 5 things you need to know

[Keefe the Thief]

Forked from: How Important is Magic to Dungeons and Dragons? - Third Edition vs Fourth Edition

Although prior experience with "medieval wargames campaigns playable with paper and pencil and miniature figures" was an asset in understanding the original presentation so that one might referee the game, it was not a prerequisite for participation as a player.

The beauty of a basis in reality is that everyone is acquainted with it. One need be no student of matters medieval, or acquainted with the exploits of John Carter, Conan, or Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser. The rules are "strictly fantasy", but fantasy of a sort only occasionally so bizarre as Alice's adventures in Wonderland.

With 4E, one has no such foundation. From what I have heard, prior experience with certain video games is an asset in learning the rules ... but learn the rules one must, for there is no other guide.

Okay, in one of the most off-topic-wandering threads of all time, we find little gems like this about how playing video games is somehow a boon for playing 4e (while earlier editions where based so much on reality that you pretty much didn´t need any prior experience with anything to pick them up).

I don´t want to talk about the fact that i think this is total bunk, however. That post got me thinking about what i call a "smooth point of entry" - that is, a hobby/story or group of stories/movie/genre etc. you have read/experienced that should make it easier to get into modern D&D,.

Gary didn´t design the game in a way so that you had it easier getting into it if you had read Conan or Leiber. He did it that way because this was his idea of appropriate fantasy for D&D. I think a modern D&D edition should be pretty unashamed about reinvent itself in such a way that it allows those who use and know modern media to have an easier time of picking it up. I´d go so far to collect a suggested-reading list in the first corebook that tells you "if you´ve read/played/watched this, this is for you."

Now, lets collect our personal 5-point-list of media that modern editions of D&D should take into account to make it easier for players to get into the game. Important: this is not a "i like this stuff - and D&D should represent it" list or a "D&D has always been and should always be about these books" list. It is about "this is what D&D should reflect to ease the transfer into playing the game in this day and age."


Here´s mine:

- Persona 3 & 4, if that is too much for you lets take Shadow Hearts: Covenant
- Full Metal Alchemist
- Hellboy / BRPD (comics only)
- World of Warcraft
- New Crobuzon

 

[Aus_Snow]

Oops, misread OP. Never mind.

 

[jmucchiello]

- Persona 3 & 4, if that is too much for you lets take Shadow Hearts: Covenant
- Full Metal Alchemist
- Hellboy / BRPD (comics only)
- World of Warcraft
- New Crobuzon

I have zero experience with any of this list. (Never even heard of persona or crobuzon.) I haven't even seen the Hellboy movie. I've never played WoW. Full Metal Alchemist is an anime I think but could be wrong.

I guess I don't know anything about modern Fantasy.

 

[Fallen Seraph]

I can't really think of top 5 things, but ones I think have had a pretty big impact on fantasy in recent years:

The Lord of The Rings movies. Not the novels, but the movies they along with Harry Potter have really brought fantasy into the spotlight. Hellboy while far from as big has also done well, and while much more minor Pan's Labrinth has scored lots of positive critics and it isn't all the time you see subtitled films get wide-release.

Recent novels that have been doing well include the Temeraire series of novels, it has reached the New York Times Bestsellers and has had the movie rights bought by Peter Jackson. It is the author Naomi Novik's first novel/series. R. Scott Baker is a recent novelist on the scene who I think has had a big splash with his Prince of Nothing series.

Obviously videogames have a huge impact. So I would definitely say World of Warcraft has been a big hit, the largest one probably only second to the movies. Final Fantasy continues to have a huge following so that be another.

Anime wise, specifically fantasy wise in recent years I would say Claymore has been doing fairly well. Spice and Wolf was a huge hit in Japan and slowly culminating into one here.

I would say too, while this would come from already having experience in RPGs that World of Darkness (has fantastical along with its horror) and Exalted are RPGs that are continuing to be "first-time" RPGs where D&D used to dominant (still does just not as greatly).

 

[Hereticus]

How Important is Magic..? 5 things you need to know

- Persona 3 & 4, if that is too much for you lets take Shadow Hearts: Covenant
- Full Metal Alchemist
- Hellboy / BRPD (comics only)
- World of Warcraft
- New Crobuzon

I have zero experience with any of this list. (Never even heard of persona or crobuzon.) I haven't even seen the Hellboy movie. I've never played WoW. Full Metal Alchemist is an anime I think but could be wrong.

I guess I don't know anything about modern Fantasy.

Same here... I'm Ofer Five on that list.

1) Some experience with a previous D&D type RPG.

2) An imagination that can work with fantasy RPG concepts.

3) Success in dealing with other human beings on a social level.

4) Willingness to work with others to achieve a common goal.

5) Intelligence to understand the game rules, so you can help the game flow and be an effective member of the party.

One need not have played video games or read comic books to be a good role player.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

Forked from: How Important is Magic to Dungeons and Dragons? - Third Edition vs Fourth Edition
snip

Here´s mine:

- Persona 3 & 4, if that is too much for you lets take Shadow Hearts: Covenant
- Full Metal Alchemist
- Hellboy / BRPD (comics only)
- World of Warcraft
- New Crobuzon

I came at D&D from D&D

As for your list. I have never heard of Persona or Shadow Hearts: Covenant;
Full Metal Alchemist, I'll get back to you on that one
Hellboy/BRPD I do not know enough to comment
World of Warcraft, yes I agree here.
New Crobuzon I also never heard of.

I can kind of see where you are coming from with Full Metal Alchemist but I reckon that Naruto or Dragon Ball (neither of which i can stand) or Rurouni Kenshin (which I love) are better examples as people there have signature moves which specific names.

I don't think that the anime influence is specific and also that Hong Kong martial arts movies are at least as much an influence.

I do think though that the Lords of the Rings movies and WoW are stronger influences. I very strongly suspect that the designers of 4e looking at the Fellowship movie, when at the battle at Parth Galen when Legolas stabs the orc in the eye with an arrow and then shoots the one behind him with the same arrow, went like I did, and said, 'wow, I want to do that in D&D'

I do think that 4e is very geared towards the action movie genre and generating an action movie like narrative.

 

[Cadfan]

Well, I have to give the OP some props and maybe an experience point. I'm familiar with everything except Persona.

I definitely think that his list is fairly good.

Full Metal Alchemist is a great take on modern fantasy and fantasy with elements of horror.

Hellboy has you covered for sheer attitude.

World of Warcraft... I'm not quite as sure this should be on the list since World of Warcraft is designed to create a D&D experience in an MMO context. But it does provide an example of a game world being created in a context much like that of a published RPG setting- pre existing conflicts, PCs who potentially will engage those conflicts, and only periodic actual progress in the story line.

And China Mieville? Definitely. Its got everything the Forgotten Realms has going for it, minus the suck. Not only can Mieville create characters who are worthy of being lifted from the page into an RPG (the Brucolac, the Whispersmith, Judah), but he crafts entire cultures just as well (the Stiltspear, Armada, the Grindylow, the Garuda, etc, etc, etc...).

I'd add Mercedes Lackey to the list.

 

[Fifth Element]

I have zero experience with any of this list. (Never even heard of persona or crobuzon.) I haven't even seen the Hellboy movie. I've never played WoW. Full Metal Alchemist is an anime I think but could be wrong.

I guess I don't know anything about modern Fantasy.

That's a pretty passive-agressive response. The OP was not suggesting that this is what "modern fantasy" is, but what he would like to see in something that represents modern fantasy. His preferences, clearly stated.

The Lord of the Rings and Conan movies give me most of what I would want. Hellboy would be a good addition as well.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I am not much into fantasy. Neither Howard nor Full Metal Alchemist or any other stuff on the list, except the Hellboy movie. I don't think I needed that to get into D&D, in fact, D&D was more a reason I got into fantasy related stuff at all.

The original fantasy series that predated my D&D experience was definitely Discworld.

I always were more interested in Sci-Fi of various kinds. I suppose a secondary thing might be fairy tales, but as a _very_ distant second. Maybe that's why I find the Feywild stuff as one of the most interesting in 4E, and also why Witches Abroad (my first Discworld novel) caught my interest and imagination.

I am sure knowing stuff on that list is helpful, but it is not required.

 

[Keefe the Thief]

Well, I have to give the OP some props and maybe an experience point. I'm familiar with everything except Persona.

I definitely think that his list is fairly good.

Full Metal Alchemist is a great take on modern fantasy and fantasy with elements of horror.

Hellboy has you covered for sheer attitude.

World of Warcraft... I'm not quite as sure this should be on the list since World of Warcraft is designed to create a D&D experience in an MMO context. But it does provide an example of a game world being created in a context much like that of a published RPG setting- pre existing conflicts, PCs who potentially will engage those conflicts, and only periodic actual progress in the story line.

And China Mieville? Definitely. Its got everything the Forgotten Realms has going for it, minus the suck. Not only can Mieville create characters who are worthy of being lifted from the page into an RPG (the Brucolac, the Whispersmith, Judah), but he crafts entire cultures just as well (the Stiltspear, Armada, the Grindylow, the Garuda, etc, etc, etc...).

I'd add Mercedes Lackey to the list.

Mercedes Lackey is a worthy addition. I added Persona because D&D fantasy sorely lacks high-school-student-aequivalent-heroes, and Harry Potter would have been flamewar material. For those who don´t know Persona: its basically a "be a high school student by day, fight evil powers by night" concept.

I don´t think that you can translate the high-school-student directly into D&D, but what games like Persona emphasize is gaining power through relationship-management amont your peers. You HAVE to socialize with others to gain their allegiance and help in combat - and to increas your own power.

Shadow Hearts: Covenant is on the list because it blends fantasy with real-world history in a light-hearted manner. D&D has this somewhat: WWI as a minor inspiration-point for Eberrons cold war is something like that. Another good example game would have been the tactical RPG Valkyria Chronicles.