[Forked Thread: How Important is Magic..?] 5 things you need to know

Imaro

Legend
That's a pretty passive-agressive response. The OP was not suggesting that this is what "modern fantasy" is, but what he would like to see in something that represents modern fantasy. His preferences, clearly stated.


Actually I think you're wrong here... read what Keefe posted again...

Now, lets collect our personal 5-point-list of media that modern editions of D&D should take into account to make it easier for players to get into the game. Important: this is not a "i like this stuff - and D&D should represent it" list or a "D&D has always been and should always be about these books" list. It is about "this is what D&D should reflect to ease the transfer into playing the game in this day and age."

Emphasis mine: He outright states this list isn't suppose to be an "I like list" but an objective list of the media D&D should reflect so that it is easier for new players to relate to. If not Keefe could you clarify before I answer the question...
 

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Hussar

Legend
Steampunk. More Steampunk.

Really, that's what I'd love to see as a baseline. Not necessarily giant steam powered clockwork robots (although that's not bad) but the basic concept of steampunk which is a synthesis of SF and Fantasy themes. Drop the whole elitist claptrap that you cannot have SF in fantasy or vice versa and go back to the time when the lines between the two genres were much more blurry.
 

Fallen Seraph

First Post
Steampunk. More Steampunk.

Really, that's what I'd love to see as a baseline. Not necessarily giant steam powered clockwork robots (although that's not bad) but the basic concept of steampunk which is a synthesis of SF and Fantasy themes. Drop the whole elitist claptrap that you cannot have SF in fantasy or vice versa and go back to the time when the lines between the two genres were much more blurry.
Can we mix some Pseudoscience in there, PLEASE!!!!
 

Shieldhaven

Explorer
Heh. My current campaign is an entirely unexpected mashup of Warhammer Fantasy (specifically its German cultural basis) and Steven Brust's Vlad Taltos novels. I did not set out to run what this game has become, but that's probably my favorite thing about it.

Haven
 

Particle_Man

Explorer
1st ed. had a suggested reading list/source of inspirations in the back of the DMG. Perhaps the game designers of 4e could come up with a similar list?
 



JeffB

Legend
:shrug: other than the Hellboy movie, I know nothing of the 5 on this list (I know what WOW is but have never seen/played it)

Maybe I'm not understanding the OP, but the influences that show in my 4E games are still the same as when I was a kid playing the LBBs and B/X/A D&D- i.e. REH, ERB,Tolkien, Moorcock, Thieves World authors, HPL, etc. Perhaps these days with a bit more "cinematic flair" thrown in from the original SW trilogy and Indiana Jones than back then, but still primarily the same.

I think the power level has ratcheted up in 4E (and 3E) to where everyone is an Elric or John Carter within a few levels...vs. say... Boromir.... but thats another thread :p
 


tuxgeo

Adventurer
Forked from: How Important is Magic to Dungeons and Dragons? - Third Edition vs Fourth Edition
< snip > . . . what i call a "smooth point of entry" - that is, a hobby/story or group of stories/movie/genre etc. you have read/experienced that should make it easier to get into modern D&D,.

Gary didn´t design the game in a way so that you had it easier getting into it if you had read Conan or Leiber. He did it that way because this was his idea of appropriate fantasy for D&D. I think a modern D&D edition should be pretty unashamed about reinvent itself in such a way that it allows those who use and know modern media to have an easier time of picking it up. I´d go so far to collect a suggested-reading list in the first corebook that tells you "if you´ve read/played/watched this, this is for you."

Now, lets collect our personal 5-point-list of media that modern editions of D&D should take into account to make it easier for players to get into the game. Important: this is not a "i like this stuff - and D&D should represent it" list or a "D&D has always been and should always be about these books" list. It is about "this is what D&D should reflect to ease the transfer into playing the game in this day and age." < list snipped >
Those criteria go in two opposing directions: A "suggested-reading list" is for people who already are involved in D&D, and want more stretches of their imaginations along similar lines; but an "ease the transfer" list is for people who are not yet into D&D, and need suggestions to show them that D&D might be like the things they already enjoy. A suggested reading list would be a great addition to the DMG, though preferably in an appendix; but an ease-the-transfer list might do better being relegated to (ephemeral) advertising campaigns, to allow the core rulebooks to remain more timeless. (Widely loved games and movies change all the time as more games and movies come out.)

What I would like to see more of in the core books is the sort of imaginative Fluff that so decorates some of the older campaign worlds.
Reason: If D&D is to appeal to all, it should resonate with most people's hopes and aspirations about what would be fun and interesting. In this connection, I like the famous quote from G. K. Chesterton, "Fairy tales do not tell children the dragons exist. Children already know that dragons exist. Fairy tales tell children the dragons can be killed." The relevance of that quote, as I see it, is that the potential players of the game already speak the language of the game to a certain extent, and do not need to be told why to kill dragons, but only how.
More generally, D&D must be built on the premise that there is already an existing cultural (and perhaps genetic) human heritage of desire for adventure, and the game should appeal to that.
If large parts of D&D were stolen from the Kalevala and Icelandic Sagas, as well as Greek and Roman and Egyptian myths, this is probably because those sources had already been proven to have wide appeal and staying power. If we want to list more modern influences that have similar appeal and staying power, we need to wait a few decades to be sure of the latter.

Now, the OP did ask for a list of suggested media, so to comply with that:
- the Lord of the Rings movies, obviously; but the books even more so
- most of Miyazaki, especially "Spirited Away" (for its Academy Award)
- Elder Scrolls games; the graphics in Oblivion are striking and evocative
- Eddings' Belgariad and Mallorean series (playing with the archetypes)
- The Chronicles of Prydain by Lloyd Alexander (no one else listed them)
 

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