How important is it to you or your players for characters to feel "overpowered"?

[Micah Sweet]

If both sides can be equally capable, and combats tend to be lethal, then combat is a coinflip. It has nothing to do with abstraction.

You've convinced me. Combat can be a coin flip. And that's ok.

 

[aramis erak]

You've convinced me. Combat can be a coin flip. And that's ok.

it's literally true for Prince Valiant... a flip of (Usually) multiple coins.

 

[aramis erak]

I'll go as far as to suggest that its entirely possible that both Mariner and Tendi at least are more capable than most of the bridge crew as events have revealed things over time. Mariner is a young Kirk with a leadership avoidance issue, and Tendi just wants to go do her science (which doesn't normally permit her leadership or combat skills to be visible).

And as you say, what about the bridge crew would make them the "primary characters" other than, perhaps, they have more volition because of their rank?

Mariner's a decade older than Boimler, and probably also Tendi. The established timeline for the show is roughly a decade after TNG ended, and she was an ensign the same time as the TNG Red Squad incident midis were ensigns. She's been busted back from JG at least twice.
She's no Kirk.

Boimler and Tendi both seem very much to be just out of the academy, and Rutherford seems to have a good few years in.. but he's been intentionally sidelined.

I'd agree that they're all above average competence in field... but Boimler is also very clearly socially incompetent in seasons 1-2 and is getting better and better (most of the time) in later seasons.

Edit to add: the whole show feels like a game for Mariner, Boimler, Tendi, Rutherford, and later, T'lyn as PCs, with Jennifer having had a player drop out due to work.

 

[PrunellaUK]

You can make a pretty good argument that infectious disease is a battle in our own world; its just a combat between our immune system and the disease organism.

True. It's just that in RuneQuest we have a game that explicitly makes it a mechanic that seamlessly fits into its broader mythic narrative. A sweet melange of worldbuilding and gameplay.

 

[Umbran]

It's really a character focus designating the "primary character" as "essential."

Not sure I agree. I think we, as RPG people who have a perennial argument about death in games, need to be careful about how we think about deaths in other forms of narrative. Especially when we are trying to use that to justify something about out games.

In general, characters in other forms of fiction don't fail to die because they are "essential". They fail to die because the author needs a reason to kill them.

Characters die because actors become unavailable, and everywhere else because the death serves some intended purpose in the story. We in our games are special, because we don't need a reason. We have dice that can decree it happening, and it... just happens. Death is always a choice in other authored fictions.

On Star Trek: The Next Generation, Commander Ryker is not "essential". The overall plot of Next Gen does not fall apart if he's not there. And we can totally imagine the series going on without him - either Lt. Commander Data gets promoted, or they bring in a new first officer. Either totally plausible, and neither would ruin the show. Ryker could totally die without breaking things.

But, do either of those alternatives serve the purposes of Next Gen? Not really. It isn't that we can't do without him, but that doing without him isn't really an improvement, nor a theme the show was looking to explore. So, having no reason to kill him, Ryker lives.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Not sure I agree. I think we, as RPG people who have a perennial argument about death in games, need to be careful about how we think about deaths in other forms of narrative. Especially when we are trying to use that to justify something about out games.

In general, characters in other forms of fiction don't fail to die because they are "essential". They fail to die because the author needs a reason to kill them.

Characters die because actors become unavailable, and everywhere else because it serves some intended purpose in the story. We in our games are special, because we don't need a reason. We have dice that can decree it happening, and it... just happens. Death is always a choice in other authored fictions.

On Star Trek: The Next Generation, Commander Ryker is not "essential". The overall plot of Next Gen does not fall apart if he's not there. And we can totally imagine the series going on without him - either Lt. Commander Data gets promoted, or they bring in a new first officer. Either totally plausible, and neither would ruin the show. Ryker could totally die without breaking things.

But, do either of those alternatives serve the purposes of Next Gen? Not really. It isn't that we can't do without him, but that doing without him isn't really an improvement, nor a theme the show was looking to explore. So, having no reason to kill him, Ryker lives.

Heck, they added a second Riker at one point and didn't have a good reason to kill him either!

 

[Thomas Shey]

You've convinced me. Combat can be a coin flip. And that's ok.

At which point, overall, the expected result should be a lot of dead characters unless you avoid combat a lot.

I'm not speaking hypothetically here. During the peak of my RuneQuest GMing, when I was running it twice a week ever week for several years I probably had a sheaf of something like a hundred dead characters. Not all of them were starters either (though the majority probably were because a missed parry was so likely with a fresh off the boat RQ1 or RQ2 character.)

 

[Thomas Shey]

Mariner's a decade older than Boimler, and probably also Tendi. The established timeline for the show is roughly a decade after TNG ended, and she was an ensign the same time as the TNG Red Squad incident midis were ensigns. She's been busted back from JG at least twice.
She's no Kirk.

She's a Kirk in that they're both capable polymaths. He just has something she doesn't--drive.

Boimler and Tendi both seem very much to be just out of the academy, and Rutherford seems to have a good few years in.. but he's been intentionally sidelined.

Tendi entered the Academy highly capable, however. She was just highly capable at, well, being a space pirate.

I'd agree that they're all above average competence in field... but Boimler is also very clearly socially incompetent in seasons 1-2 and is getting better and better (most of the time) in later seasons.

He's also the one of the four that most leans in to the show's conceit, which is why I mention him.

Edit to add: the whole show feels like a game for Mariner, Boimler, Tendi, Rutherford, and later, T'lyn as PCs, with Jennifer having had a player drop out due to work.

Sounds about right.

 

[Thomas Shey]

On Star Trek: The Next Generation, Commander Ryker is not "essential". The overall plot of Next Gen does not fall apart if he's not there. And we can totally imagine the series going on without him - either Lt. Commander Data gets promoted, or they bring in a new first officer. Either totally plausible, and neither would ruin the show. Ryker could totally die without breaking things.

Though the farther away you get from a show being an ensemble, the less easy replaced some of the central characters are; in some cases you basically have no show if you remove certain characters because there's no clear path to replacing them in a way that keeps the show going. You're more like to see the character stay and them replace the actor (not that that isn't fraught too) in those cases.

 

[Micah Sweet]

At which point, overall, the expected result should be a lot of dead characters unless you avoid combat a lot.

I'm not speaking hypothetically here. During the peak of my RuneQuest GMing, when I was running it twice a week ever week for several years I probably had a sheaf of something like a hundred dead characters. Not all of them were starters either (though the majority probably were because a missed parry was so likely with a fresh off the boat RQ1 or RQ2 character.)

Avoiding combat unless necessary has always been part of my best practice play, on either side of the screen.