Forked Thread: Should players know the rules?

[Lanefan]

Giving a newbie a break as he learns the rules during the game is one thing, but I don't understand anyone who simply refuses (after several sessions) to make an effort to understand the basic principles that govern the game he's attempting to participate in.

Try after several years, instead of sessions...

Some people just want to listen to the story, and use their imagination as to how they can participate in it and help drive it along. Rules are merely the box they are trying to think outside of; in other words, they just get in the way a lot of the time.

These are the same people who don't care much about what feats or powers they have, and aren't out to optimize their character in any way other than to make it match the characterization they have in mind, warts and all.

Depending what kind of game you want, these can either be the best players of all to have at your table, or the worst. Me, I don't mind 'em so much.

Lanefan

 

[Krensky]

Depends. Paranoia: No. Absolutely not. Why are you even asking? Are you some kind of Commie Mutant Traitor? You are, aren't you? Admit it. *ZAP*

Anything else: Unless the game specifically states the players shouldn't know how a system works, they should know enough to not drive the rest of the table crazy. The amount this requires varies from system to system, table to table, player to player, and character to character.

 

[Reynard]

It’s because role-playing games are different. Heck, they arguably aren’t “games” at all. (Similar to how there is debate over whether SimCity is a game or a toy.)

The question of whether RPGs are games may be open, but an adventure is certainlya game -- the only thing RPGs lack in the generally accepted definition of what makes a game is a clear goal or set of victory conditions. As soon as you create a scenario -- whether it is an open scenario like "Explore the caves of chaos" or a narrow scenario like "kill Lichy McEvil" -- you have made the leap from toy or toolkit or whatever to "game".

 

[RFisher]

I used to do this when I played 3e...and then realized how pointless it was. Rare indeed would be the combat where my *actual* bonus was the same as the base bonus written on my sheet...between buffs, ability drains, changing weapons, bless/bane effects, and other sundry variable gype I'd still have to add it up every frickin' time anyway. And then, once I'd figured it out, it would all change before my next attack sequence. Bah!

This is starting to remind me why I don't play 3e anymore...

^_^ I know what you mean.

When I play 3e, I tend to make custom character sheets so that I can at least have prefigured most of the possibilities based on my PC itself. Still have to deal with the buffs & other transient modifiers, though.

If it weren't a game, it wouldn't have rules. If there were no rules, then there wouldn't be rulebooks.

Is everything that has rules a game? Does every game have rules? Are those books really filled with rules or guidelines that we call rules?

I don’t want to derail this thread to discuss those questions. I’m only trying to make the point that it I don’t think it is so clear cut.

Or let me put it this way: For some groups it might be clear cut. In these groups, yes, players should know the rules. I know that for some others, however, it certainly is not.

The question of whether RPGs are games may be open, but an adventure is certainlya game -- the only thing RPGs lack in the generally accepted definition of what makes a game is a clear goal or set of victory conditions. As soon as you create a scenario -- whether it is an open scenario like "Explore the caves of chaos" or a narrow scenario like "kill Lichy McEvil" -- you have made the leap from toy or toolkit or whatever to "game".

I’m not sure I agree, but that’s an interesting point.

 

[LostSoul]

Some people just want to listen to the story, and use their imagination as to how they can participate in it and help drive it along. Rules are merely the box they are trying to think outside of; in other words, they just get in the way a lot of the time.

These are the same people who don't care much about what feats or powers they have, and aren't out to optimize their character in any way other than to make it match the characterization they have in mind, warts and all.

Maybe the problem is that the game they are trying to play (characterization, story, etc.) doesn't fit the game rules (counting squares, figuring out bonuses for attack rolls, choosing spells, feats, powers, etc.).