Forked Thread: Three more days

[roguerouge]

OK. Here are the two options:

"Yes. Edition wars just cause fights."
"No. Edition wars are the way to have real discussion."

The poll is clearly weighted toward the "Yes" option. First, because "wars" implies "fights" so the Yes choice is practically a tautology. Second, because there's an enormous difference between allowing "edition wars" (which at some point slipped from being a sarcastic shorthand to becoming a category) and thinking that they "are the way to have real discussion"... in fact, not only is the "Yes" option practically a tautology, the "No" option is practically a contradiction.

I concur. It's not a particularly well-written poll and if it came out of a political party's office we'd laugh and laugh.... But since we're not dealing with the standards of professional polling, we'll just have to make do.

Consider the alternative way of phrasing the same question:

"Yes. Frank discussion of the merits of each DnD edition just causes fights."
"No. Frank discussion of the merits of each DnD edition is the only way to have real discussion."


In short: it's an edition war to you. The term influenced the undecided or the ambivalent.

I'm not upset about it, but, yes, he has a point.

 

[roguerouge]

i think there is an underlying problem to this whole edition war thing. It seems to me that enworld itself is in an identity crisis, split down the middle between 3e and 4e players who are both worried about being marginalized as far as the community is concerned. Enworld has a great community, and people who have chosen one edition of d&d over the other are, i think, rightly worried that the other edition is going to push them away from the community base.

The people sticking with 3e are worried that enworld will leave them with nowhere to really go to discuss their favorite edition. It is called murrus' 4th edition d&d now after all. Enworld has been a 3e haven on the internet for intelligent discussion for about a decade now, the premiere 3e site. If it suddenly jumps into 4e head first, where does that leave them? They've put a lot of work and effort into enworld, building the community that makes this site so great, and to be summarily tossed, well, that's not fair at all.

The people moving to 4e are worried about enworld's 3e base, many of whom are long time respected members of this community, pushing them out of the site. They're already making a big leap with the new edition, and its becoming more and more obvious that despite what anyone may debate or argue about the majority of d&d's player base sticking with 3e or moving to 4e, there are a lot of enworlders sticking with 3e and very vocal about it. It leaves them wonderingn if, while enworld the site appears to be embracing 4e, the community is going to end up pushing them out.

Now this is just the people who have either switched completely or not at all. I think the majority of people haven't really made that kind of mental commitment. I also think that while both viewpoints are valid, that acting on these fears only worsens the situation. If you think you're being marginalized or pushed away, you want to push back, you want to make sure that you're being heard. But, since both sides are in this mentality, they feel that they're being attacked.

But, most people aren't really attacking. They're responding to perceived threats. I make this claim because both sides seem to be posting under the assumption that the other side is out to get them. They see offenses where none are meant, but when you see things like that everywhere its only a matter of time before things get real, people start fighting, and edition wars erupt, even if its contained not to look like it. Add to that that people here just like debate, and things

i don't know if i'm right, but i feel right. The atmosphere here feels different. On high alert. The more i think about it, the more i worry that the problem isn't really edition wars, but the perceptions of people regarding the future of the community. This itself isn't really something the moderators can solve themselves. We have to either make a conscious decision to allow 3e and 4e to both go unmolested or one group or the other will eventually run the other off. We don't want that, do we? I don't.

qft.

 

[roguerouge]

Well said, ThirdWizard.

I for one used to post here quite often. Now, since the site has switched its focus to 4th edition, I find myself visiting here less and less. I feel pushed away and rejected, but I really don't have anywhere else to go.

I guess I'll just find myself a refrigerator box and hang out in the alley next door.

Alternatively, you could go to Paizo's boards as well. I just come here for the RP ethics and advice threads now.

 

[Deset Gled]

I vote that the ban be lifted, but that the mods instigate a zero-tolerance policy on starting edition wars in any thread not specifically created for that purpose.

Better policing may be a good idea, but zero-tolerance is the worst solution I have seen so far.

 

[Fifth Element]

Another thing I have to mention, i've seen posted 5 or 6 times now. "We don't discuss trolls, report them" though it varied in syllables and grammer of course.

I want to ask, why?

Simply because it's not on-topic. "Hong is a troll" has nothing to do with edition wars, which is what this thread is about.

That, and because the mods ask us not to.

 

[The Little Raven]

I concur. It's not a particularly well-written poll and if it came out of a political party's office we'd laugh and laugh.... But since we're not dealing with the standards of professional polling, we'll just have to make do.

If I was concerned about the professionalism of the poll, I certainly wouldn't have posted it on the cesspool of inaccuracy we call the internet.

But then again, I sometimes forget how the tubes of the intarwebs turn anything into serious business.

 

[Desdichado]

The passive/aggressive attacks being made now are so much more fun to read than unmoderated ranting.

I dunno; edition wars threads are often my favorite reads. I've been missing them (and enjoying them on other boards.)

 

[Delta]

If you are getting the same reaction out of Hong frequently, ask yourself what triggers it? What did you do that brought up the "don't think too hard about fantasy" line?... In other words, if you keep inputting the same thing, you'll keep getting the same output.

You're making a big assumption that ProfC is levying a complaint about responses to his own posts, when he didn't actually say that. I personally share the exact same aggravation every day, just from reading other threads that I've never even posted in.

 

[Arnwyn]

While I voted "no", I don't necessarily believe that "edition wars are the way to have real discussion".

I do find them, however, tremendously fun to read (Edit: though not necessarily participate in) when I'm bored at the office (which is the only time and reason that I read ENWorld, especially nowadays).

 

[roguerouge]

If I was concerned about the professionalism of the poll, I certainly wouldn't have posted it on the cesspool of inaccuracy we call the internet.

But then again, I sometimes forget how the tubes of the intarwebs turn anything into serious business.

Right. Never mind that I twice said that I didn't think it was a big deal and that I wasn't upset about it.

I simply wanted to give a good example to support an argument that was being dismissed as utterly without merit. Silly me.

I think I'll have me some liver and knockwurst.