[forked thread] What constitutes an edition war?

[billd91]

What if I were to say something like: "In my opinion, water is terrible for you and no one should drink it!"
Am I still right?

Also I want to add that for you in particular, I don't care what you do or don't play. It really doesn't matter to me in the least. At least you're honest enough about it I guess. (Saying: They changed it now it sucks!).

What I am arguing about is the WoW references, the "dumbed down" statements and the "too complex" statements. I'm arguing the abuse of the GNS and the invention of terms like "dissociated mechanics" or "Gygaxian naturalism". You know, all of the stuff that is objectively not true that people use to try and objectively justify their preferences.

You would be comparing apples and oranges. Nutritionists agree that at least some moisture is necessary and lack really IS bad for you. But whether or not a game is too 'gamist' is more akin to saying the salsa is too spicy. It's a question of personal preference how spicy you like your salsa, same with the balance between gamist, narrativist, and simulationist elements. If I liked the game as it was before and the balance of those elements has changed, then the game may be too gamist... for my preferences. Your preferences may be different without either of us being wrong.

 

[DoctorNick]

You would be comparing apples and oranges. Nutritionists agree that at least some moisture is necessary and lack really IS bad for you. But whether or not a game is too 'gamist' is more akin to saying the salsa is too spicy. It's a question of personal preference how spicy you like your salsa, same with the balance between gamist, narrativist, and simulationist elements. If I liked the game as it was before and the balance of those elements has changed, then the game may be too gamist... for my preferences. Your preferences may be different without either of us being wrong.

what if its the same salsa in a different jar and you still tell me that in your opinion, the second one is too spicy?

 

[DoctorNick]

No I wouldn't think you were right because you are tying to force your opinion on to me. It is sort of like what an Aunt of mine used to do she felt that the only way to eat steak was well done and by god that was the only way you could get it at her house. She would not accept that there were different ways to enjoy steak.

You say that they are using these terms to justify their opinions about 4E. I see them as less justifying but more as way of explaining their opinion.

And even if they are being asshats over it why should you care? That is what I don't understand why people seem to take it personally. Do you feel that it is an insult directed at you because you like the game?

I don't think it sucks I can see what they wanted to accomplish with the new design. I just prefer a different game design.

im not offended or angry or taking anything personally, i assure you. I post on the internet because it's fun. I thought we'd have a discussion. I thought that's what discussion boards were for.

 

[Relique du Madde]

what if its the same salsa in a different jar and you still tell me that in your opinion, the second one is too spicy?

Funny you say that because I have seen that happen WITH SALSA at my family's restaurant. A man asked a waitress to return one of two bowls of the same salsa (which was part of the same batch) because it was too hot.

We told him it was the same but he didn't have anything to do with it because he already precieved it to be too hot.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

what if its the same salsa in a different jar and you still tell me that in your opinion, the second one is too spicy?

If you are wondering if you can be wrong in any argument, given enough silliness, then the answer is yes. Going out of your way to be wrong makes little sense, but, yeah, you can do it.

Too bad it doesn't go the opposite way as well, I would love to be correct in every argument, regardless of subject or context.

The Auld Grump, or just maybe the answer is 'No - one jar of salsa says spicy, the other says mild. The spicy one obviously has jalapenos, while the mild just as obviously does not. Just because they come from the same company does not make them the same salsa. Saying that they are the same doesn't make them so'.

'If your cat had kittens in the oven, would you call 'em biscuits?'

 

[Lanefan]

I can see what they wanted to accomplish with the new design.

So can I.

I just can't see why.

Lan-"I too am an edition warrior, only the edition I fight for is one that very few know of; as it is largely my own"-efan

 

[AeroDm]

Nar, I just used it as an excuse to mention Polk and Buchanan. (though given the goings on at TSR in late 2e... maybe Taft would have been a better choice?)

The Auld Grump

You know who really doesn't get any love? Chester A. Arthur. I was assigned to write a report on him in 5th grade and I think I can count the number of times he has come up since on one hand.

This thread also made me realize that being compared to WoW is sort of a silly slur. Being likened to a hobby that has a player base probably close to 10x D&D that is a pioneer in its field and has consistently remained excellent enough to continue to dominate despite many new entrants and competitors doesn't really feel like it should hurt.

 

[Elf Witch]

im not offended or angry or taking anything personally, i assure you. I post on the internet because it's fun. I thought we'd have a discussion. I thought that's what discussion boards were for.

Some of your answers seem kind of snarky for just having a discussion. Like calling my opinion silly to assuming that I think 4E sucks just because I don't like it.

I perfect capable of thinking something is well written and still not like it. I seen several episodes of the Sopranos and I think the writing and the acting is fantastic. But I don't like the subject matter and don't enjoy watching the show.

 

[Elf Witch]

what if its the same salsa in a different jar and you still tell me that in your opinion, the second one is too spicy?

This is absolutely silly as an example. Please don't tell me that you think AD&D, 3E and 4E are the exactly the same game.

The first two are closer which is why when 3.0 came out they included a conversation guide to convert your PCs to 3.0. They didn't with 4E because it is very hard to convert characters.

I have several friends who convert material from AD&D to 3E and even the other way all the time. None of them thinks it easy to covert 4E because so much of the game has changed.

 

[Jimlock]

My FAVORITE/BELOVED edition is the 2nd edition.

It was through this 2nd edition that I got into gaming. It was love at first sight.

I've played 1st e once and I liked it the same. (At the time I wasn't able to figure out the

differences with 2nd, it was all the same to me )

Now I play 3.5 and I really enjoy it greatly!... even though my 2nd edition days are irreplaceable....

4th edition I haven't played, but I've watched others playing it a few times.
I've aslo watched all the sessions I could find on the internet, so as to understand the system changes. I've also read/watched plenty of reviews about it, both good and bad.

I do not like 4th edition. I do not like the "feel" of the game. I do not like the art. I do not like it because I find that the WOW comparison is true, and I don't like WOW. I do not like it because I do not like the direction the game has taken. I do not like it because it counts so much on miniatures (that's something I do not like about 3.x edition too). I do not like it for all the possible subjective reasons one can find.

Does this make it a bad game?
Well FOR ME, it does. But on the other hand it does not make it a bad game in general.

Call me old school, call me whatever you want. That's how I feel about it.

Am I insulting anyone?

Does this make me an Edition Warrior?