[forked thread] What constitutes an edition war?

[Elf Witch]

See, am I supposed to argue with that? Am I supposed to put on a show?
We go line by line for a few pages and then hmm, I wonder who'll get banned for edition warring?

I have nothing to prove, I stated my opinion, and my entire point is that there isn't a constructive dicsusion going on here, even if people want to pretend there is.

2e wasn't some bastion of story gaming, and the edition with the best story support is 4e, because it has the best dming advice, by a long shot. You don't use that definition? I don't give a rat's ass; in my opinion your criteria is not sound.

You really can't see it can you. That you are basically trying to state your opinion as fact not an opinion.

I have found this discussion very constructive. Because I have finally figured out why some 4E fans get so bothered by all this.

You guys are afraid that the designers will listen to our criticism and change the game design that you enjoy.

Welocome to the club fans of older editions know exactly how that feels. To have a game that you really enjoy changed.

I think the reason Mearls and WOTC is courting old fans is that the new edition is not selling as well as they hoped and want some of that business back. Believe me a lot of this has to do with bottom dollar.

 

[Imaro]

I think the reason Mearls and WOTC is courting old fans is that the new edition is not selling as well as they hoped and want some of that business back. Believe me a lot of this has to do with bottom dollar.

This... if 4e was/is meeting financial expectations or surpassing them, then I doubt WotC would be screwing around with it's basic design paradigms in the middle of the editions lifespan ...cough*essentials*cough... or even entertaining the criticisms of those fans 4e has dissapointed. Plain and simple if 4e was making the type of money they wanted it to or garnering new customers like they expected it to, WotC wouldn't care what those left behind thought.

 

[Imaro]

Or Mearls - the guy who regularly plays 0e? - is a fan of old school classes and wants them to be implemented more in D&D.

It really is that simple.

Wait... so you think the powers that be at WotC, regardless of what sales data or and/or marketing data tells them... would just give Mearls carte blanche to design any way he wants (because he likes it)... even if it would lower their profits? Hmmm, I'm not a fan of the practices of WotC but even I believe they have more business sense than that.

 

[Elf Witch]

This... if 4e was/is meeting financial expectations or surpassing them, then I doubt WotC would be screwing around with it's basic design paradigms in the middle of the editions lifespan ...cough*essentials*cough... or even entertaining the criticisms of those fans 4e has dissapointed. Plain and simple if 4e was making the type of money they wanted it to or garnering new customers like they expected it to, WotC wouldn't care what those left behind thought.

Before the 4E fanboys have a brain hemorrhage over this , this is not an attack on the design of the game.

I think there is a lot more to it than that. 4E came out just as the economy was crashing. I breed birds. Pets like gaming is a luxury and I have seen my business take a beating.

Another part of the issue is Pathfinder. It gave people who like to play a supported system a different option.

And finally 4E changed a lot about the game and for some of us those changes were a deal breaker.

The thing to remember is that WOTC is a business and it will do what it has to do to stay in business.

 

[Imaro]

I believe that the guy who's job position is being in charge of how 4e is developed is, indeed, in charge of how 4e is developed.

Shocking, I know.

I'm not even sure what to say to this... So you think Mike Mearls is just given free reign to develop D&D however he wants... and there are no checks, balances and restrictions from on high on the type of products and design space he has to develop in??? Why does WotC even do market research for D&D... I mean they're going to let Mearls do whatever he wants, right? So why waste the money on it?

 

[Imaro]

Double Post.

 

[Elf Witch]

I'm not even sure what to say to this... So you think Mike Mearls is just given free reign to develop D&D however he wants... and there are no checks, balances and restrictions from on high on the type of products and design space he has to develop in??? Why does WotC even do market research for D&D... I mean they're going to let Mearls do whatever he wants, right? So why waste the money on it?

Mike Mearls can do this because he is a powerful wizard and everyone else at WOTC are not so he has complete narrative control.

 

[Imaro]

Mike Mearls can do this because he is a powerful wizard and everyone else at WOTC are not so he has complete narrative control.

So in reality there is only one Wizard of the Coast... Mike Mearls, and everyone else working there are just his apprentices... got it.

 

[Raven Crowking]

Mike Mearls can do this because he is a powerful wizard and everyone else at WOTC are not so he has complete narrative control.

So in reality there is only one Wizard of the Coast... Mike Mearls, and everyone else working there are just his apprentices... got it.

It's funny because it's true!

 

[Redbadge]

I think part of the problem of this thread is that 4e "fanboys" are being too defensive and emotional, when there is nothing needed to be defended. 4e is the best game by far, best at narration, best at simulation, and best at gaming. The problem, as mentioned in the posts above, is that WotC's presentation and marketing of the system was very poor, and now they're trying to change that. The presentation can be approved, but I think we can all agree that 4e is otherwise the best edition so far.