[forked thread] What constitutes an edition war?

Remember, some of the most entrenched and recalcitrant Edition Warriors are the ones who either claim that they are not participating in the war (while shouting how [insert edition here] is the one true game/most flexible/has evolved beyond petty concerns of proof or basic evidence, or are claiming to fight only a war of defense.

When dealing with such a mindset the thing to do is ignore, if not Ignore, them. Fully a quarter of this thread has been spent arguing with one such myrmidon. Let such call themself victor while you and I go back to arguing with folks who actually have something to say. You'll have more fun that way, I'll have more fun that way, and nothing of value will have been lost.

Though, in honesty, I think that it is fair to state that the term 'edition war' has been pretty well defined in this thread, by concrete example. So what say that we all agree that I/we/you have won the war, or at least this battle, and have iced tea with cookies? :p

The Auld Grump, the problem with arguing with a wall is that sometimes the wall wins....
I was going to XP you for this but ENworld won't let me. I must say the only time I won an agrument with a wall I had a 13lb sledge hammer and a crowbar.:D
 

log in or register to remove this ad


Remember, some of the most entrenched and recalcitrant Edition Warriors are the ones who either claim that they are not participating in the war (while shouting how [insert edition here] is the one true game/most flexible/has evolved beyond petty concerns of proof or basic evidence), or are claiming to fight only a war of defense.

When dealing with such a mindset the thing to do is ignore, if not Ignore, them. Fully a quarter of this thread has been spent arguing with one such myrmidon. Let such call themself victor while you and I go back to arguing with folks who actually have something to say. You'll have more fun that way, I'll have more fun that way, and nothing of value will have been lost.

Though, in honesty, I think that it is fair to state that the term 'edition war' has been pretty well defined in this thread, by concrete example. So what say that we all agree that I/we/you have won the war, or at least this battle, and have iced tea with cookies? :p

The Auld Grump, the problem with arguing with a wall is that sometimes the wall wins....

I, too, was going to XP you, but must spread around, yadda yadda.
 

I'm not going to contribute to the edition wars


Carry on brave soldier, for you are deep in the trenches. Saying someones view on 3e fighters is wrong and you are right is very interesting.

For myself and several other groups around here, we would not say you are wrong, even though we have dropped 4e (in our case after 1 1/2 years).
 

Game, Set, Match, me.


More like game, set, and removal from thread.

Folks, the thread's about edition warring - how folks are inappropriately aggressive and tenacious with their opinions on editions. Let me strongly suggest you all stop trying to demonstrate the concept by direct examples.

Thanks.
 

See, what I've noticed ism that edition wars need two sides to be angry at each other. That's why edition wars start when 4e fans start defending themselves.



Remember, some of the most entrenched and recalcitrant Edition Warriors are the ones who either claim that they are not participating in the war (while shouting how [insert edition here] is the one true game/most flexible/has evolved beyond petty concerns of proof or basic evidence), or are claiming to fight only a war of defense.

TheAuldGrump strikes again.
 

There is a problem here and it's not one you're trying to point out. It's one you are accidentally showing.

The first two pages had little more then wonderful pictures of 3e and earlier, and then a thinly veiled insult at 4e. Within the first two pages it was called WoW (and would be called such again later on), it was the poorly painted alluminum shed compared to the wonderous castles of other editions, it was an angry "pro-gamer" screaming at his computer, it was literally a cookie cutter, etc, etc, etc.

But for you, it wasn't an edition war, and it wasn't "offensive," until someone compared the 3e and Pathfinder fighter to a bellhop. Not even a comment on the edition as a whole, just a joke about the fighter class - a joke that's been repeated dozens of times beforehand about fighters existing only to carry the bags. That, for you - that joke that's been around for quite awhile, the joke that was made in, what, page 4 of the thread after countless passive aggressive insults at 4e? - is "very offensive."

First, welcome to ENworld.

I have to say, you're adding some serious slant to that thread.

"Wonderful" pictures of earlier (non 4e) editions include:
(all on page 1)
a pile of crayons
a child confused by the complexities of chess
a question mark
an utterly stupid centaur butterfly thing
a rat trap
(all on page 2)
some sort of ugly organ with perhaps hundreds of unwieldy wires
a glass celing
a kitchen sink
betty white ridng a john ritter minotaur
an ugly mishmash of batman and superman


post #6 http://www.enworld.org/forum/genera...-edition-into-single-picture.html#post5588767 (on the first page, obviously) was a pretty clear attack on 3e, with 4e being the awesome.


There were several comments on those pages of "At least he seemed to be critical of each edition." and "I keep thinking there is an edition war being fought here, but the medium makes it hard to be sure who is on what side, or even what's being said."

So no, it wasn't offensive (even though there were some pretty critical pictures of the earlier editoins) until someone went out of their way to be offensive (that post, as well as the poop post which was deleted). Of course, those with thin skin might be easily offended even by more gentle critique.
 
Last edited:

It's fun and easy to say "Just play your game and leave well enough alone," because your game isn't the one constantly being attacked. But that's not what 4e haters are doing, and they are 4e haters, not 3e fans, because "liking 3e" is not enough for them, they have to put down 4e. Hey, maybe people who like 4e will play their game happily and leave well enough alone when the other side stops poking them so much.

An opinion is not an attack. Let me demonstrate.

"Katy Perry's so-called music is rubbish."

Observe that Katy Perry is unharmed. Now, obviously Ms. Perry isn't here to be offended. If she were, I might say,

"I can't say I'm much of a fan of your music, Ms. Perry, but it was nice to meet you."

But even if she overheard the first, perhaps as I was unaware she was present, she might be offended, but could not claim to be attacked. Observe, however, if I said,

"Your music sucks. I wish you had never been born."

That's different. That's a verbal attack.

Now imagine we were in a moderated environment. Perhaps every time someone referred to her music as rubbish, a fight broke out. A moderator might step in and say, "Look, no calling that music rubbish. We're all here just to have a good time." That becomes a stickier issue. I believe, personally, that some things can be called rubbish. At the same time, it's not always kind or worthwhile to do so. I don't go around telling kids that Pokemon cartoons are rubbish, even though they pretty much are. It's a matter of tact and compassion. I think there is an argument to be made that adults can, and perhaps should, be frank about discussing things of pertinence (like, for instance, RPGs, on an RPG site). On the other hand, there is a lot to be said for civility, even enforced civility. As we know in what direction policy has been laid out on EN World, discussion of what constitutes an edition war is probably not all the fruitful.

First, edition wars are not allowed. If you see something that looks like an edition war, either you're wrong, or the mods haven't gotten the report yet. If you're wrong, there's a good chance you are about to start an edition war when you draw your saber, becoming the very thing you swore to destroy.

Second, most of the things that lead to edition wars are already not allowed. Ad hominem attacks, blanket negative evaluative statements about games, and claiming to speak for the other side of an argument are already against the rules. Fallacious arguments are strongly frowned upon. Something is unlikely to even venture into edition war territory during normal business hours. By the time someone gets suspended or whatever, people are usually crossing the warning tape that says "Do Not Go Into the Do Not Go Place."

People saying things about games that you do not like about games you do like is not an edition war. If they are saying inaccurate things, you are entitled to correct them. If they say things with which you disagree, you are welcome to disagree. But it's not a war until someone sets aside civility and attacks. Until then, it's just a difference of opinion.
 

It's fun and easy to say "Just play your game and leave well enough alone," because your game isn't the one constantly being attacked. But that's not what 4e haters are doing, and they are 4e haters, not 3e fans, because "liking 3e" is not enough for them, they have to put down 4e. Hey, maybe people who like 4e will play their game happily and leave well enough alone when the other side stops poking them so much.

But the "other side" isn't poking them... they're poking 4e and that's fair game. At least it should be since poking 3e has been fair game since this board went operational. There hasn't been a single time frame in which 3e wasn't a legitimate target for criticism and wasn't criticized in some way, shape, or form. What's different now?
 

Well, forgive the poor analogy, but to me, it's like two people talking about the best way to get down a mountain. The mountain has two ways down: a trail that takes 4 hours walk at a leisurely pace, or an elevator that'll get you down in 2 minutes. People can debate which way is better for getting down, because, subjectively, there's been no stated objective goal yet. No one has said "what's the best way to get down the mountain quickly?"
That might be because the best way to get down the mountain quickly involves a free-fall off that cliff over there...




What? ;)

You asked about the best way to get down quickly. Didn't say anything about safely... :)

Lan-"splat!"-efan
 

Remove ads

Top