[forked thread] What constitutes an edition war?

[Lanefan]

The books are not something that I consider in any guise to be the best of anything.

I took one look at "Worlds and Monsters" when it came out and bought it on the spot.

I didn't care about 4e, or what the book had to say about it or any other edition; though I suppose I read it through at some point I didn't buy it for the words.

The art in it blew me away. I've got one full adventure out of the scenes in that book so far, with another in the works eventually and maybe a third if I can pull it off.

Two or three months later I was then very disappointed in the art in 4e's core three books. W+M had got my hopes up way too high.

Lanefan

 

[TheAuldGrump]

I took one look at "Worlds and Monsters" when it came out and bought it on the spot.

I didn't care about 4e, or what the book had to say about it or any other edition; though I suppose I read it through at some point I didn't buy it for the words.

The art in it blew me away. I've got one full adventure out of the scenes in that book so far, with another in the works eventually and maybe a third if I can pull it off.

Two or three months later I was then very disappointed in the art in 4e's core three books. W+M had got my hopes up way too high.

Lanefan

Okay, that I might grant you - I do not remember the art at all, at all. I was concerned only with the text. If you were happy with them as art books, well, there is nothing I can say against that. Glad that they were good for something, I guess.

The Auld Grump

 

[pawsplay]

I probably shouldn't say this...

I'm not 4e fan, and maybe it's just me (probably is), but this just strikes me as petty. Perhaps it's just the presentation of it, or perhaps I missed something in the text. It just seems like such an odd thing to be proud of.

A petty evil? If you are simply calling it a petty amusement, I will not be ashamed of that. But if you think I have done harm to someone who did not deserve it, even in a small way, I would be glad to hear your perspective and consider whether I owe some sort of redress.

 

[JamesonCourage]

A petty evil? If you are simply calling it a petty amusement, I will not be ashamed of that. But if you think I have done harm to someone who did not deserve it, even in a small way, I would be glad to hear your perspective and consider whether I owe some sort of redress.

I'm not really going to go into it. Needless to say, when I looked up the definition of petty moments ago, one usage stuck out to me, and confirmed that "petty" was indeed the word I wanted.

But hey, it's all good man. I have no intention of getting into a fruitless debate, when I'd much rather get into fruitful ones.

As always, play what you like

 

[TheAuldGrump]

Putting it all in perspective -

Joel by TheAuldGrump, on Flickr

Image stolen from Were Geek.
(I identify with Joel for some reason.... )

The Auld Grump

 

[pemerton]

Yes we have. I did not change my opinion then and I will not change that opinion now.

<snip>

I am being more direct this time, because you seem to feel that trying to change my mind is somehow something that I might welcome.

It is not.

I'm not trying to change your mind. Apart from anything else, your opinion of those books is none of my business.

My concern is to set out clearly a different opinion and interpretation of the books you're criticising. (And I guess, thereby, to also explain why I don't regard myself as a sucker, which is how you implicitly described me upthread.)

The preview books were an outright money grab with people paying for the advertising. Taken as a whole they were a second rate con job that should never have been run by a first rate company.

The books attempted to paint previous editions of the game in a poorly fashion, dismissed styles of play that did not fit the limited paradigm of their forthcoming edition

See, in the case of Worlds and Monsters I don't agree with this. It's not (just, or primarily) an ad. It's GM advice, on how to use the fictional elements of the game. And I'm happy enough to pay for good GM advice, whatever title is on the cover.

As for the painting of previous editions in a poorly fashion, that didn't strike me as a very prominent feature of W&M. Nor did it have much to say about styles of play, except as is implicit in giving advice on how to use the game's fictional elements in setting up scenarios.

 

[wedgeski]

I bought the preview books and don't regret a penny of it. Excellent products. Clearly I should feel resentment at the money grabbed from my wallet, and curse my own stupidity for being taken in. I'll get right on that.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

In what way was it not intended as an advertisement?

Much of the advice was recycled from Idiot's Guide to DMing, and much else was 'Hey look! The old way sucks! Try our new product!'

A paid preview is an advertisement, and one paid for by the consumer in this case. W&M was, perhaps, not the worst example (R&C was much worse in this regard as far as I am concerned) but too much time was still spent trying to tear down the old model rather than build up the new.

Had this been a series of articles in Dragon it might not have irked so much, but, if I recall correctly, they had already ended the print edition of Dragon....

The Auld Grump

 

[Stoat]

I purchased both W&M and R&C and in do way did I feel conned or suckered into doing so. WotC was upfront about what these books were -- preview material that contained fluff and designer comments but no rules or crunch. I knew that I was paying for, essentially, an advertisement for 4E. I did so because I was interested in the new edition and because I wanted to be able to follow along with the various 4E threads on the various messageboards that I frequent. IMO, they were worth the price.

If Auld Grump or whoever has a beef with the content of the preview books, that's fine. However, I think it is entirely inaccurate to call them a con.

 

[billd91]

I purchased both W&M and R&C and in do way did I feel conned or suckered into doing so. WotC was upfront about what these books were -- preview material that contained fluff and designer comments but no rules or crunch. I knew that I was paying for, essentially, an advertisement for 4E. I did so because I was interested in the new edition and because I wanted to be able to follow along with the various 4E threads on the various messageboards that I frequent. IMO, they were worth the price.

I have to agree that they were pretty up front that they selling a marketing package. That's why I didn't buy them. I wasn't going to pay top dollar for an ad.