Fortune Cards: and randomized collectible cards come to D&D

[Hussar]

$4 or $5 or $3.45 (which is really seems like splitting hairs to me, but whatever) for a a booster pack may or may not reflect that pack's true value to you. A slot machine only costs $.50. Buying it is a gamble. And that's when it becomes kind of exploitative. And that's what makes it unwelcome for me.

To be fair, he did say "more" than 5 dollars. Then again, depends on which currency he's talking about too.

I can see where you're coming from KM. We've all got stuff that hits us just perfectly wrongly.

 

[Scribble]

A fine point. The big question with the non-deck building model will be:
can players keep using existing opened cards at official events or will buying new packs be required to participate?

There has been nothing to indicate this would be the case.

The chance element. That's the element that randomized card packs exploit. That's the thing that leads to "addictive" behavior. That's what doesn't add anything at the table. That's the predatory business practice. That was also my major issue with the minis.

A slot machine only costs $.50. Buying it is a gamble. And that's when it becomes kind of exploitative. And that's what makes it unwelcome for me.

And again this is where I think you're missing it.

There in't a greater chance factor to exploit.

In a Collectible Card Game, or a slot machine as you mention, the system is set up so that if you keep playing, you have a chance at greater success.

"If I just put in another quarter I'll get the big payout."

"If I just buy another booster I'll get that super great card."

They exploit your desire to win by letting you buy more and more to increase your odds.

This isn't true in this case. You have the same chance of drawing an "awesome card" with one pack as you do with 100 packs.

There is nothing motivating you to buy more packs, aside from your own desire to own stuff- And that's no more exploitative then anything being sold in any form. If you want something you pay money for it.

If you lack self control and can't stop buying them.. Well blaming WoTC would be like blaming a grocery store for you over eating.

The minis I find are an entirely different story. I never really bought them because they DID fall under the sort of exploitative practice you're talking about. In order to get the better minis for the mini game I had to keep collecting.

(I wouldn't go so far though as to paint it in as "evil" a light as you seem too, but it was still annoying.)


Also in order to get the ones I needed for my rpg game I had to keep collecting. Random chance in the case of the minis was bad (which is why I give them credit for the seeming move towards tokens.)

 

[Terry DM]

I'll stick with the Deck Of Many Things, thanks.

 

[Vyvyan Basterd]

To be fair, he did say "more" than 5 dollars.

Also, assuming that the price will be as high as Magic cards isn't a given. The quality of the Fortune cards is yet to be seen. I hope we don't see foil Fortune cards (which probably push up the price point of Magic Cards).

 

[I'm A Banana]

In a Collectible Card Game, or a slot machine as you mention, the system is set up so that if you keep playing, you have a chance at greater success.

A compulsion doesn't really care about the logic. Explain the odds to a compulsive gambler, and they'll usually just shrug. They know the odds. They know they're not likely to win more than they loose. They know it doesn't pay off to keep pumping the machine full of quarters. They're well aware that the payout probably isn't coming, and won't make up for all they've lost anyway. They don't care.

It's not about winning. It's about playing. As D&D players, I think we can understand that logic pretty well.

There is nothing motivating you to buy more packs, aside from your own desire to own stuff- And that's no more exploitative then anything being sold in any form. If you want something you pay money for it.

If you lack self control and can't stop buying them.. Well blaming WoTC would be like blaming a grocery store for you over eating.

The desire is to keep playing the game of "what cards did I get?!", because the game has set up a pernicious pattern in your brain where when you give WotC $4, you get a little rush (regardless of what's actually in the pack). That's the aspect that is too predatory for my tastes.

And I'm definitely not "blaming" WotC. WotC's business practice in this one case preys on this natural desire without giving anything back. I find it unpleasant. I'm not accusing them of causing the problem, but I am saying I'm not going to support something I see as exacerbating a problem that exists for no clear benefit.

I wouldn't "blame" WotC for alcoholism if they gave away free beer at their Encounters games. I might say that they're exploiting why people like beer in order to sell their little pieces of cardboard.

In this case, they're exploiting why people like random things in order to sell their little pieces of cardboard.

I take issue with that psychological trick.

 

[Scribble]

A compulsion doesn't really care about the logic. Explain the odds to a compulsive gambler, and they'll usually just shrug. They know the odds. They know they're not likely to win more than they loose. They know it doesn't pay off to keep pumping the machine full of quarters. They're well aware that the payout probably isn't coming, and won't make up for all they've lost anyway. They don't care.

Odds are unimportant in this case.

It's not your odds of getting a better card it's the fact that you have any kind of chance. The fact that it's there to get in the first place.

I can win, I will be the winner. I put a quarter in no matter how small the odds I COULD be the winner. I could get that card I need.

In this case that doesn't exist.

It's not about winning. It's about playing. As D&D players, I think we can understand that logic pretty well.

The desire is to keep playing the game of "what cards did I get?!", because the game has set up a pernicious pattern in your brain where when you give WotC $4, you get a little rush (regardless of what's actually in the pack). That's the aspect that is too predatory for my tastes.

I can sort of understand this- But I don't really see a difference here with any other type of thing for sale.

You give someone money they give you a thing.

And I'm definitely not "blaming" WotC. WotC's business practice in this one case preys on this natural desire without giving anything back.

It gives you a thing to use in your game... What else do you want???

I find it unpleasant. I'm not accusing them of causing the problem, but I am saying I'm not going to support something I see as exacerbating a problem that exists for no clear benefit.

I wouldn't "blame" WotC for alcoholism if they gave away free beer at their Encounters games. I might say that they're exploiting why people like beer in order to sell their little pieces of cardboard.

In this case, they're exploiting why people like random things in order to sell their little pieces of cardboard.

I take issue with that psychological trick.

See I think this is where we'll just disagree...

If you notice they seem to be moving towards non random for the things you need to be non random. For instance the power cards- non random. Monster Tokens- Non random.

The things you WANT to be random to use them are.

I guess you see exploitative, and I see less exploitative by design.

I could say forcing me to buy a 12.00 pack of 80 non random fortune's when I only really need a 3 dollar pack of 8 cards is exploitative.

Again- far be it from me though to tell you you need to buy the things.

Whatever your feelings are are your feelings- hopefully I'm not coming across as trying to say your feeling are "wrong..." I'm just seeing the oposite with these... that's all

 

[ExploderWizard]

There has been nothing to indicate this would be the case.

At this time, you are correct which is why my comment was phrased as a question rather than a statement. However:

Originally Posted by TirionAnthion
"PRODUCTS REQUIRED TO PLAY
Each table participating in the D&D GAMMA WORLD Game Day will need the following products, in addition to the materials provided in this kit:

One (1) D&D GAMMA WORLD roleplaying game boxed set – the DM uses the rulebook and tokens from the set during play.

Two (2) D&D GAMMA WORLD booster packs for each player participating in the game. Players should purchase these booster packs at their local
game store prior to sitting down to play."
[END QUOTE]

If this list of required materials is accurate and proves to be a success then there is no reason to believe that making cards an integral part of other games such as D&D all that far fetched.

Fortune cards are purely optional as presented for the moment. How long will this be the case?

I have nothing against card games, board games, or whatever people enjoy for amusement. What I find dissappointing is the transformation of an RPG into a CCG just to grab some revenue. This is a classic example of the industry serving it's own interests at the expense of the hobby.

 

[Matt James]

The cards integrate with the system, not the other way around. This optional addition is just that-- optional. To say otherwise is speculating on any given outcome based on any number of variables. Some are looking for any reason to hate the game or any products that come out.

The sky is blue and blueberries are blue, therefore the sky tastes like blueberries.

Imagine if the same venom was showed by the gaming community when Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson introduced dice other than the d6 to a game.

Oh my god! Gary Gygax and his team of goons over at TSR are just trying to get us to spend more money by forcing us to buy these funny-sided dice! Screw TSR and their money-grubbing ways!

 

[Imaro]

The cards integrate with the system, not the other way around. This optional addition is just that-- optional. To say otherwise is speculating on any given outcome based on any number of variables. Some are looking for any reason to hate the game or any products that come out.

The sky is blue and blueberries are blue, therefore the sky tastes like blueberries.

Imagine if the same venom was showed by the gaming community when Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson introduced dice other than the d6 to a game.

Oh my god! Gary Gygax and his team of goons over at TSR are just trying to get us to spend more money by forcing us to buy these funny-sided dice! Screw TSR and their money-grubbing ways!

I don't remember ever hearing about Gygax or Arneson ever trying to sell blind and random dice with rarities...

 

[Matt James]

So your issue is with the company trying to sell a product? One that is in no way required for game play?