Found the fun in gaming again

[Elf Witch]

...whereas I find the opposite. Sitting in the bar, fellow PCs start a fight, we have to leave town quick, and that's another place we can't go back to.

The next time the five Russian space marines come to our table and try to start a fight with our three non-combatant PCs, could we maybe buy them lots of vodka and pump them for information about all those unscheduled shuttle flights? Wouldn't it make a change from tossing insults then getting whupped?

I am not saying that you should always have bar fights. In this situation the only way to have avoided it was to let him take the gold. There was already bad blood between him and another party member going all the way back to childhood.

I hate stupid barfights. My point of the post was the fact we did something without endlesly talking about it planning it down to an inch of its life.

I often want to talk to the other guys too that can be fun and good way to get info.

 

[The Shaman]

what a great article I sent it to my group to read.

I'm glad the article was helpful to you. I'd be interested to know what kind of feedback you get, if any, from your group.

 

[Aeric]

I have to agree that overplanning sucks. In the last campaign I played (RttToEE), it got to a point where every new room in the dungeon was approached like a freakin' hostage situation. It got so bad that my character would often just walk into a room while the others were discussing things. I'd rather die from some trap or a monster than die of boredom.

 

[EdL]

I have to agree that overplanning sucks. In the last campaign I played (RttToEE), it got to a point where every new room in the dungeon was approached like a freakin' hostage situation. It got so bad that my character would often just walk into a room while the others were discussing things. I'd rather die from some trap or a monster than die of boredom.

LOL, you should see our group in action. About 7 times out of 10 we spend at least half an hour planning what to do (and often much longer), then the plan falls apart the moment we come into contact with the Bad Guys and it turns into a general melee. And we make such good plans, too!

 

[Elf Witch]

You need to talk to your DM about this. The DM needs to step up and encourage roll play. More importantly, the DM should not support the bully trying to get everyone else to play the way he wants them to play.

Play your character and enjoy. Let the chips fall where they may.

And please note, I am not encouraging DMs to screw with a party. What I am encouraging is using your ability to shape the world to bring consequences to people who make decisions based on an optimization scheme instead of a character and his needs and desires.

I sent the link on the D20 modern articlegroup and so far the response has been we don't play in D20 modern.

I don't hold out much hope for this stuation changing. It is kind of hard when I am told that it is all in my and my roommate's head.

It is impossible to solve any problem if no one is willing to admit there is one or admit that others may have a point.

 

[Turhan]

Good morning, Hey Elf Witch and Wormwood- either of you'd be welcome in our group, though the commute to Alaska is a bit long.... We are having a small issue with one player telling another how to play his character, but we all see the problem, and know how to fix it (just apologize and start the scene over). Seldom does anything like this come up however, so we were all surprised last week, even the guy doing the telling (he's a bit sheepish right now).
I DM now but it used to be another old hand, and he sometimes injects a little DM-ish info to or on his character, but it seldom bothers the group, and until this week never caused a problem.
In your case Elf W, you may have a harder issue, since some of the others don't acknowledge a problem. Maybe you could pull the DM aside and make sure they know that even if no one else agrees, You do feel there's a problem and let them know how big it is. Is it really ruining your fun? Does the cautious plotter almost always make the game less than what you want? Express those concerns and see if the DM can help you meet half way with the plotter or if once in a while you can have small encounters where planning goes by the wayside right away. (Once in a while I ambush the PC's on their way to the Adventure.)

Our group always plans too, even when I play instead of DM, but we all know that the plan falls apart when the first sword is drawn. Whoever is DMing generally has some reserve baddies to toss out to rearrange the battle field or a big monster is drawn by the noise of battle. We learned that at a certain point you make a basic plan and allow for flexibility then just step boldly into the breach. Risks are important, and even a death can be reversed with dnd magic- it just takes time and money. We invest a lot in our PC's but without risk, the fun is minimized.

Also, I've dealt with a "bullyiish" player before, but our current group of old geezers spends a lot more time with non optimal characters. He was a rules lawyer, a treasure hoarder and a power gamer with no regard for the safety of other characters. (It was a joke for a new player to follow him into a room only to be abandonded to the orc horde.) Then we all pulled the new kid aside and apologized, but warned him about the Danger Dwarf. (Oh yeah, the rest of us always rescued the new kid.) Never the less, we always let people make their own choices, and each character was "required" to act according to his own conscience, tempered by the need to be a team player.

We tend to the hack and slash side of things, but try to do it 'in character.' There are times when even our hard line chop n kill fighter stops and talks to people who may have info- not everyone has to die, and as a DM I enforce the rule that if you kill everyone, you won't have many friends. Sometimes the characters have to be kind and be good unless they want to make their quest harder than necessary. The thing is, if everyone your group comes into contact with ends up dead, even if there are no living witnesses, sooner or later the group gets rep for being jinxed and local folk hear about you and shy away nervously.

My advice is, simply play as You and your character believe the role should be played. Sometimes you will think caution and planning is good, but sometimes, just like in real life, you realize that you don't need a seven layer, triple back up plan just to go get a loaf of bread at the store (or to dive into the barrow and fetch out that one special trinket).

Finally, make it a point to have fun in every game. Do something in every encounter that makes you, and others, remember your character's actions: leave some gold on the counter for the bar tender, give a lad a nice dagger you picked up and tell him some bit of wisdom, stop and help the washer-goblin carry the laundry up to the inn, or use a party item's special power to undo something evil that you feel should be undone (like raise the mercenary the other fella just killed, and then give him a jewel and an apology).
Good luck and good gaming,

Sorry for the long post everyone.

 

[amethal]

I sent the link on the D20 modern articlegroup and so far the response has been we don't play in D20 modern.

Sounds like you don't play D&D either.

Endless adventure and untold excitement await... Prepare to venture forth with your bold companions into a world of heroic fantasy. Within these pages, you'll discover all the tools and options you need to create characters worthy of song and legend ..."

I can't think of any songs or legends about Andy the Cautious, Bill the Risk Adverse, Claire the Expedient, Dawn who Never Offended Anyone in Power and Eric the Planner who Loves Minute Details.

I don't hold out much hope for this stuation changing. It is kind of hard when I am told that it is all in my and my roommate's head.

It is impossible to solve any problem if no one is willing to admit there is one or admit that others may have a point.

I agree, the knowledge that you are not having fun is in your head. Where else would it be? We await the invention of the Fun-O-Meter.

If your friends don't care that you aren't having fun, then maybe you need new friends.

If your friends prefer a different style of RPG, then maybe you need a new group.

However, the best solution is to suggest a more "kick in the door" style of roleplaying to the group, and hopefully they will agree to give it a try.

For what its worth, I leave you with the example of Falcon the Human Bard (3.0). (Its quite long, but I think worth the read.)

Falcon was a nightmare of a character. His player had no set idea of what Falcon was about, and ended up with a character who was mediocre at everything and good at nothing. He had the ability to cast "cure light wounds" but he never healed anyone else. Invariably, he would use up all his healing on himself, and then the party cleric would have to waste further healing on him to repair the consequences of Falcon's ineptitude.

Under normal circumstances, Falcon would have been best remembered for his ability to summon a celestial badger when the going got tough.

Then came the siege of Dogtown....

A horde of orcs, backed up by a gang of ogres, surrounded the town. The defenders had the added worry of caring for a large group of refugees from previously sacked settlements. Their only hope was the party of adventurers who chance had placed within the walls at the time of the attack - and a couplel of them had previously suggested leaving the townsfolk to their fate.

The leader of the orcs, in an act of supreme overconfidence, flew over the walls on his wyvern, and landed in the town square. He dismounted, and demanded a challenge worthy of his mettle.

Steiger, a noble hearted aspiring knight, rose to the challenge and acquitted himself valiantly against the orc chieftain. His courage is spoken of in Dogtown to this day, but only as an aside to the tale fo Falcon. [Steiger's tale is marred by the fact he would have died had not Amethal, the party's elf sorcerer - roleplayed brilliantly by a person who shall remain nameless - abandoned his post on the wall to add his magic missiles to the fray; in fairness to Steiger I should point out the orc was at least 2 levels higher than he was].

Falcon, spotting the riderless wyvern, seized his chance. He leapt upon the creature's back [I'll leave this and the following skill checks to your imagination, but I've never seen such a run of high numbers on a d20 before and since] and started seeking out weak points in its hide with his dagger.

Maddened by the presence on his back, but fortunately unable to reach the lightly armoured bard with his poisoned tail spike [the DM rolled a string of very bad rolls for both the wyvern and the orc chieftain] the beast took to the air.

Somehow managing to stay in the saddle, Falcon thrust again and again with his dagger. The wounded beast flew back towards the orc army. As it was passing over the town wall, Falcon struck the killing blow.

Sensing the beast had taken a mortal wound, Falcon leapt from its back. Call it luck, chance, fate (or yet another ridiculously high skill check), he managed to land on the town wall (rather than the ground below) and took only superficial damage.

The dead wyvern plowed into the orc army, causing many casualties. Having witnessed Falcon's unbelievable antics and the death of the wyvern, and with the knowledge that their chieftain (having lost his aerial steed) was probably not coming back alive, the orcs routed.

Falcon had saved the day. Falcon was the greatest hero Dogtown had ever seen.

As players, and as characters, we are united in considering that session by far the most fun we have ever had out of any role-playing game.

Players of characters who play the odds, look for minute advantages and never walk under ladders "just in case" will never know what that feels like.

 

[The Shaman]

I sent the link on the D20 modern articlegroup and so far the response has been we don't play in D20 modern.

*sound of hand slapping forehead*

How is it that there are so many unimaginative people playing this game?!?

Sorry, Elf Witch - I'd invite you to join our group if we weren't a few time zones apart... :\

I can't think of any songs or legends about Andy the Cautious, Bill the Risk Adverse, Claire the Expedient, Dawn who Never Offended Anyone in Power and Eric the Planner who Loves Minute Details.

Priceless!

 

[Asmor]

I sent the link on the D20 modern articlegroup and so far the response has been we don't play in D20 modern.

I don't hold out much hope for this stuation changing. It is kind of hard when I am told that it is all in my and my roommate's head.

It is impossible to solve any problem if no one is willing to admit there is one or admit that others may have a point.

It's also difficult to solve a problem if there is no problem to solve.

Just to play devil's advocate, maybe the rest of the group enjoys playing like that. Different strokes for different folks.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

It's also difficult to solve a problem if there is no problem to solve.

Just to play devil's advocate, maybe the rest of the group enjoys playing like that. Different strokes for different folks.

There is a problem - two of the player's are not having fun.

I hope that Elf Witch and Wormwood can find a game more suited towards their tastes, this one sounds like it would be no fun for me either. Heck, it smacks of the 'walk forward and tap the floor with my 10' pole' school of gaming.

The Auld Grump