Four classes get spot and listen as class skills...

[Plane Sailing]

Andy Collins has posted on his boards, in response to a query

Which classes gain spot + listen as class skills?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No, not every class has them.

They went to classes that R&D would prefer to see as scouts, lookouts, or just generally "aware of their surroundings."

Specifically, the following classes have both Listen and Spot as class skills:

Druid
Monk
Ranger
Rogue

Barbarians and bards have Listen, but not Spot, as a class skill.
Andy Collins
Senior Designer
Wizards of the Coast Roleplaying R&D

Interesting move. I imagine that there will be a chorus of complaint from people who want every class to get spot and listen, and it does marginally remove one of the sweet features of rogues and rangers (by spreading it around a little more). I can see where they are going with this idea though.

Cheers

 

[Shard O'Glase]

I can see it, but um fighters are perhaps the clasic lookout being the non NPC guard class. So for there supposed reasoning scouts maybe but lookouts nope.

 

[Storminator]

I can see it, but um fighters are perhaps the clasic lookout being the non NPC guard class. So for there supposed reasoning scouts maybe but lookouts nope.

But in all the stories, the fighters are the classic lookouts that get snuck up and surprised.

PS

 

[Shard O'Glase]

But in all the stories, the fighters are the classic lookouts that get snuck up and surprised.

PS

Nah mooks(AKA NPC classes like the warrior) get snuck up on and surprised, the heroic fighter the PC notices somethig in the shadows and kicks some butt.

Thing is without spot and listen than should just say after level 3 these classes are invisible don't even bother rolling you pathetic sucker.

 

[Branduil]

If your fighter wants spot or listen, take a level of ranger. You lose maybe one hp, but you gain more sp, +2 to both Fort and Ref saves, and now you can max out spot or listen. It'll cost you, but a fighter can easily get an Int of 14 or higher, so spending 2 sp per level on spot or listen shouldn't be too much of a problem.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

Yep ... spent the ability point in Int so you get Expertise; use the additional skill points in Spot.

Rangers/Rogues are supposed to be the scouts ... I have no problem with them having spot when the fighter doesn't.

As to the druid/monk,

 

[ruleslawyer]

Well, the monk makes sense. It's all that heightened awareness and Shaolin craziness. Which of course also could be applied to the druid: "Eye of Eagle, Ear of Rabbit," or some such.

IMHO, the reason why the druid gets Listen and Spot is that he's a wilderness character, and supposed to be at home in the wilds. You don't survive very long in the wilds without keen senses.

As for the fighter: Well, it's not a soldier's or professional warrior's job to have keen senses. Military sentries work by following watch patterns and observing procedure, not by developing preternaturally keen senses. I'd certainly expect fighters to take cross-class ranks in Listen and Spot if they were always serving sentry duty, but being lookout is really a job for the ranger or the rogue.

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

This all has the sound of post rules rationalization rather than pre-rules justification. It could just as easily be argued the other way-- if you want your monk/druid/etc. to have heightened awarenes, take cross class listen and spot skills; survival accounts for surviving in the wilds not spot and listen; and any argument that druids and rangers have to survive in the wild against dire creatures will have to account for the fact that wizards and clerics need keen senses to survive in the dungeon against orcs and oozes. "But they just buy those cross class." "But so do rogues and monks." But. But. But.

It can be justified either way. Which justification is more plausible depends upon the listener. Myself, I find the "all classes should get listen and spot" side more plausible because all the classes gain experience and levels in exactly the same way and have to survive under pretty much exactly the same conditions. Any rationalization of why one class needs keen senses to survive will apply to all the others as well.

Well, the monk makes sense. It's all that heightened awareness and Shaolin craziness. Which of course also could be applied to the druid: "Eye of Eagle, Ear of Rabbit," or some such.

IMHO, the reason why the druid gets Listen and Spot is that he's a wilderness character, and supposed to be at home in the wilds. You don't survive very long in the wilds without keen senses.

As for the fighter: Well, it's not a soldier's or professional warrior's job to have keen senses. Military sentries work by following watch patterns and observing procedure, not by developing preternaturally keen senses. I'd certainly expect fighters to take cross-class ranks in Listen and Spot if they were always serving sentry duty, but being lookout is really a job for the ranger or the rogue.

 

[Technik4]

I think its all about the natural habitat. Where are you most likely to find non-adventurer (those exist too) clerics, wizards, and fighters? Likely in an urban setting, a temple, tower, or guard post somewhere. Where will you find monks, druids, barbarians, and rangers? Well monks will be training to get closer to self, perfection/harmony and all that jazz, personally I think you could justify just about any skill to the monk, though I am happy with the list as it stands. The last 3 will all be in wilderness environs, where they will most likely be fighting enemies with large natural bonuses to hide, hence they need to cultivate their perceptive skills more than the former.

Now of course, a case can certainly be made for all adventuring classes to have listen/spot as well as heal (your comrades will fall sooner or later, get some first aid!), climb, (up ropes, out of pits, what-have-you), and many others.

Technik

 

[The_Gneech]

It can be justified either way. Which justification is more plausible depends upon the listener. Myself, I find the "all classes should get listen and spot" side more plausible because all the classes gain experience and levels in exactly the same way and have to survive under pretty much exactly the same conditions. Any rationalization of why one class needs keen senses to survive will apply to all the others as well.

I'll second that. Fighters have no skill points anyway! Having Listen and Spot as class skills for them just means they won't take Awareness as often.

-The Gneech