Fourth Edition just feels... incomplete

[Agamon]

Personally, it feels more complete to me than any previous edition, particularly because it gives me the math behind the rules. Transparency makes it far more usable.

Yup, me too. But then, I'm one of those weird, "doesn't need everything spelled out for him" dudes...

 

[SSquirrel]

Also while I'm at it can I just vent a little about the fact that everybody and their grandmother's grandmother seems to have an early (and illegal) copy of the three books while the rest of us sit here with nothing to tide us over except KoTS? I mean is anyone else getting miffed that the books are being read (and critiqued) and we can't read it for ourselves to see if there's any truth to what people are saying? Is it possible that I'm the only one that doesn't already have the books?

Probably so. If you have a broadband connection and a computer, not possessing a copy of the pdfs is simply a choice not to, cuz they're very easy to find. It's not like we need a pirate's treasure map to show the route to them I have the pdfs and have had my books pre-ordered for months on Amazon. I'll happily read the books and make characters w/the pdfs until my books arrive and after that the pdf is largely easy searching and the ability to take them with me electronically if I can't take my physical books.

 

[Agamon]

I'm just sitting here shaking my head at the idea of any DM letting their players into the DMG (in any edition) to look up magic items.

They belong in the DMG, with information about their properties safe in the hands of the DM to give out when discovered either via field testing or spell e.g. identify. Were I ever to run 4e, one major headache for me would be to re-do the whole magic item table and then tell the players to ignore that entire chapter in the PHB. (then again, I know myself; I'd likely take a path of less resistance and swipe an item list from 1e or 3e or some other system)

Well, there is no "identify" anymore. Players are supposed to know what magic items do when they get them, which works for me. So having magic in the PHB makes sense. That whole concept of hiding what magic does from players always seemed like a good idea in theory, but in practice it was a real pain in the arse for all involved.

Personally, I don't like PCs with lists of magic items, magic will be much more rare, I'll just be handing out innate bonuses every 4 levels and let the PCs find a couple items of true power that they wouldn't dream of "selling".

 

[Dice4Hire]

Wow, 4 Paragon choices per class. That's a LOT more 'Prestige classes' than were in the DMG.

Seriously, yes, there is almost no fluff, and I like that a lot. I can do fluff. I don't need Mr. Sillyname's Blade of Thunder.

I'll make up my own sillier name, thank you.

 

[SSquirrel]

Personally, I don't like PCs with lists of magic items, magic will be much more rare, I'll just be handing out innate bonuses every 4 levels and let the PCs find a couple items of true power that they wouldn't dream of "selling".

Luckily, the system is nicely transparent and not hard to rig up some bonuses to do just this and still have all the math work out the same.

 

[Agamon]

I'll make up my own sillier name, thank you.

Made Up Silly Names FTW!

 

[Agamon]

Luckily, the system is nicely transparent and not hard to rig up some bonuses to do just this and still have all the math work out the same.

'zactly!

 

[AllisterH]

I'm just sitting here shaking my head at the idea of any DM letting their players into the DMG (in any edition) to look up magic items.

They belong in the DMG, with information about their properties safe in the hands of the DM to give out when discovered either via field testing or spell e.g. identify. Were I ever to run 4e, one major headache for me would be to re-do the whole magic item table and then tell the players to ignore that entire chapter in the PHB. (then again, I know myself; I'd likely take a path of less resistance and swipe an item list from 1e or 3e or some other system)

So, other than advice on how to run a game, what of use *is* in the DMG? (it'll be about 2 weeks until I see the books)

Lanefan

Er, by RAW in 3E

1. Magic items can be bought
2. Magic items can be made.

Again, if this was 1e/2e where the above 2 points weren't true, I'd agree with you Lanefan but since 3E when item creation/acqusition was given over to the PCs?

Nope. Can't justify why the magic items be in the DMG. AM I the only one that has players looking through their the DMG in deciding what items that actually want to create?

As for the 4E DMG, I'd say it like this.

1. IF you were mostly interested in building a virtual world, then the 3E DMG has more nformation for you.

2. If you are more interested in advice on constructing/running a roleplaying session, then the 4E DMG is the best DMG by far.

 

[delericho]

Ok, I've been a long time supporter (f4nboy) of 4e, but after *ahem* perusing the books for myself, I can't help but feel...

Fourth Edition feels incomplete.

I don't have the books, so I can't comment as to the accuracy of this. However, what I am quite sure of is that for 3 books, representing a $104.95 purchase, and 832 pages of reading, it really shouldn't feel incomplete.

If you played 3.5 core only, you still had a complete (if not boring) game...

recall my original statement: 3.5 still felt complete, just boring...

Am I alone? Am I crazy? (don't answer that). Does anyone else who has seen the books feel they are a little...empty on the inside?

Yep, you're crazy. Core rules 3.5 was never boring.

 

[IanArgent]

Mechanics wise I like 4e a whole lot better, but I'm not willing to give up Haste, Polymorph and Summon Monster anytime soon.

as you wish, but (3.0) haste and Polymorph are to examples of OP spells, I am not surprised at all that Polymorph is gone. I am reasonably sure there is a power similar to 3.5 haste, but Wizards may not have it (sounds like a Leader ability). Summon Monster is probably also gone from Wizards for a later conjuror class, if it can be balanced. I am not all that sad to see the jack of all trades wizard go, to be replaced by more variety in classes overall.