[FR]Against the Storm
- Thread starter DM_Matt
- Start date
Thanee
First Post
@Calim: Could it be, that you miscalculated your stats? I noticed we have almost identical stats, but you are missing out 2 points (20, 13, 13, 12, 10, 8 compared to 20, 14, 14, 12, 10, 8). Maybe I did the error, but surely one of us must have something wrong there!
After checking back, you seem to still have 4 points left over (13->14 costs 2 points, because of the tax).
You don't seem to have chosen your 5th level bonus feat for the wizard!
You obviously spend A LOT of money on more spells (no Identify, tho?). Ever heard of Boccob's Blessed Book?
Also, I think your character still carries some 3.0 remains!
What I noticed...
Shield only grants +4 AC now, so - since you don't have any bracers of armor - you could prepare Mage Armor instead, which does the same for you with much higher duration.
Haste, while still a good spell, is completely different now!
Flame Arrow isn't what you probably want it to be in 3.5 anymore. The replacement for this one is the 2nd level Scorching Ray (which is kinda nasty, as it has no save)!
Ball Lightning has been updated in (I think it was) Savage Species (don't have that book myself). Might want to check that one out, if you can! I think it's back closer to the original from MoF now, compared to the errata.
Elemental Focus. Not sure how Matt wants to handle this. The similar abilities (Spell Power) from Archmage and Red Wizard have been changed in 3.5 to not provide a plus to DC, but rather a plus to Caster Level (which isn't all that bad either, as it allows to throw higher damage Firebrands, for example). However, the Spell Power ability includes Spell Penetration as well, whereas these are split for the Elemental Savant (Focus and Penetration).
So there are basically two options in my books.
1) Simply leave as is. Focus adding to the DC, Penetration to the Spell Penetration rolls.
2) Change Elemental Focus to add to Caster Level for all but Spell Penetration rolls, which is what Elemental Penetration does.
With the nerf of Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus in 3.5, it's probably better to use 1), tho. That's also more convenient.
Finally, one thing about spell preparation. I found that highly useful for my higher level wizards.
You can leave some slots open during preparation. Later during the day, you can fill them as needed, which only requires 15 minutes of rest, without the 8h needed to refresh the spell slots. Some spells really don't need to be available immediately (i.e. Mordenkainen's Private Sanctum) and this grants wizards a lot more flexibility. Only one or two slots left open offer a myriad of possibilities, since you can now access all spells you know this way (with some preparation, granted, but only 15 minutes is a lot better than several hours of rest).
Hope you don't mind this little analysis.
Bye
Thanee
After checking back, you seem to still have 4 points left over (13->14 costs 2 points, because of the tax).
You don't seem to have chosen your 5th level bonus feat for the wizard!
You obviously spend A LOT of money on more spells (no Identify, tho?). Ever heard of Boccob's Blessed Book?
Also, I think your character still carries some 3.0 remains!
What I noticed...
Shield only grants +4 AC now, so - since you don't have any bracers of armor - you could prepare Mage Armor instead, which does the same for you with much higher duration.
Haste, while still a good spell, is completely different now!
Flame Arrow isn't what you probably want it to be in 3.5 anymore. The replacement for this one is the 2nd level Scorching Ray (which is kinda nasty, as it has no save)!
Ball Lightning has been updated in (I think it was) Savage Species (don't have that book myself). Might want to check that one out, if you can! I think it's back closer to the original from MoF now, compared to the errata.
Elemental Focus. Not sure how Matt wants to handle this. The similar abilities (Spell Power) from Archmage and Red Wizard have been changed in 3.5 to not provide a plus to DC, but rather a plus to Caster Level (which isn't all that bad either, as it allows to throw higher damage Firebrands, for example). However, the Spell Power ability includes Spell Penetration as well, whereas these are split for the Elemental Savant (Focus and Penetration).
So there are basically two options in my books.
1) Simply leave as is. Focus adding to the DC, Penetration to the Spell Penetration rolls.
2) Change Elemental Focus to add to Caster Level for all but Spell Penetration rolls, which is what Elemental Penetration does.
With the nerf of Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus in 3.5, it's probably better to use 1), tho. That's also more convenient.
Finally, one thing about spell preparation. I found that highly useful for my higher level wizards.
You can leave some slots open during preparation. Later during the day, you can fill them as needed, which only requires 15 minutes of rest, without the 8h needed to refresh the spell slots. Some spells really don't need to be available immediately (i.e. Mordenkainen's Private Sanctum) and this grants wizards a lot more flexibility. Only one or two slots left open offer a myriad of possibilities, since you can now access all spells you know this way (with some preparation, granted, but only 15 minutes is a lot better than several hours of rest).
Hope you don't mind this little analysis.
Bye
Thanee
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Mithreander
Explorer
Ya, the weekends are tough for me, but so has this week! I have to appologize for holding up... whatever I held up. Once mroe, sorry!
reapersaurus
Explorer
wow, that was a spectacular commentary, Thanee.
I think I'll crib some of those recommendations for when I'm playing a Wizard.
I think I'll crib some of those recommendations for when I'm playing a Wizard.
reapersaurus
Explorer
Matt - I tried to send you email about your request for Drinking Rules, but your email address isn't working, hotmail said.
[thoughts] As an observer, I was really surprised and disappointed the way the "Rahja is drunk and doesn't know what she signed" scene went, as well as the fact that BOTH capture scenes used a surprise-round with criticals to subdue Rahja and Ines.
The take-advantage-while-drunk is just a pet peeve of mine, is all - I don't believe that people lose that much judgment & memory when inebbriated, least of all adventurers. But I'm not the DM who has to wrangle so many different characters and plotlines together...
I guess it gets the storyline accomplished, and if that's the easiest/best way to make the story move along, than I guess that's OK, MAtt.
It just rubs me the wrong way as a player to see multiple 20's coming up against other players, and surprise (unstoppable) attacks. As long as the motivating factor and the justification for those happening is The Story, I guess I'm OK with it. Actually, I felt something similar when reading Ravin's first encounter with the squad, I just didn't mention it.
I guess my reason for mentioning it now is 2-fold:
1) I'm wondering if you players were/are OK with your PC's being taken advantage of with no chance to stop it, and your specialties being dismissed/overcome (Ravin's case, IIRC)
2) It is a dangerous story hook to be re-using, Matt. Anytime you trump a PC's abilities, it bites into the pleasure we get as players in having special characters, that are the best at something. We like to see our characters shine, of course I'm sure you know, and whenever a PC's strengths are so easily overcome, it is a bit... alarming to me as a player.
How do you all feel about that?
Matt, do you see my point, from a story perspective?
We are all involved in interactive storytelling here, right? I mean, the superficial concern could be "Are we just passive participants in the story that Matt wants to tell?", but I don't think that's the case.
BTW: I don't think my character (Ubaar's) strengths have been dismissed. I'm just remarking on what I've seen happen to the others here recently. But to give an example, to help relate it for underastanding, if Ubaar sat down in an arm-wrestling competition, and lost to someone, than that had better be the God of Strength himself that beat him, or I'd ask to see the character sheet to understand how someone could have higher STR than him. We are playing powerful characters, in dangerous, critical times, and I'd assume songs and stories would be made of our valorous exploits in ridding the Forgotten Realms of Storm's despotic reign.
Each of our characters should optimally have scenes that help to showcase our strengths, and hopefully get across how we help to better the world, and why we were chosen to be on this special team. [/thoughts]
[thoughts] As an observer, I was really surprised and disappointed the way the "Rahja is drunk and doesn't know what she signed" scene went, as well as the fact that BOTH capture scenes used a surprise-round with criticals to subdue Rahja and Ines.
The take-advantage-while-drunk is just a pet peeve of mine, is all - I don't believe that people lose that much judgment & memory when inebbriated, least of all adventurers. But I'm not the DM who has to wrangle so many different characters and plotlines together...
I guess it gets the storyline accomplished, and if that's the easiest/best way to make the story move along, than I guess that's OK, MAtt.
It just rubs me the wrong way as a player to see multiple 20's coming up against other players, and surprise (unstoppable) attacks. As long as the motivating factor and the justification for those happening is The Story, I guess I'm OK with it. Actually, I felt something similar when reading Ravin's first encounter with the squad, I just didn't mention it.
I guess my reason for mentioning it now is 2-fold:
1) I'm wondering if you players were/are OK with your PC's being taken advantage of with no chance to stop it, and your specialties being dismissed/overcome (Ravin's case, IIRC)
2) It is a dangerous story hook to be re-using, Matt. Anytime you trump a PC's abilities, it bites into the pleasure we get as players in having special characters, that are the best at something. We like to see our characters shine, of course I'm sure you know, and whenever a PC's strengths are so easily overcome, it is a bit... alarming to me as a player.
How do you all feel about that?
Matt, do you see my point, from a story perspective?
We are all involved in interactive storytelling here, right? I mean, the superficial concern could be "Are we just passive participants in the story that Matt wants to tell?", but I don't think that's the case.
BTW: I don't think my character (Ubaar's) strengths have been dismissed. I'm just remarking on what I've seen happen to the others here recently. But to give an example, to help relate it for underastanding, if Ubaar sat down in an arm-wrestling competition, and lost to someone, than that had better be the God of Strength himself that beat him, or I'd ask to see the character sheet to understand how someone could have higher STR than him. We are playing powerful characters, in dangerous, critical times, and I'd assume songs and stories would be made of our valorous exploits in ridding the Forgotten Realms of Storm's despotic reign.
Each of our characters should optimally have scenes that help to showcase our strengths, and hopefully get across how we help to better the world, and why we were chosen to be on this special team. [/thoughts]
Thanee
First Post
Well, so far I have no problem with how it went.
Rahja isn't the most perceptive, so while she probably isn't particulary easy to fool, a skilled person would be able to do it and those guys obviously were quite good at it.
I would have had an issue with what's happening, if Danilo had a ring of continuous protection from domination or made his Will save multiple times (from my judgement he should have a really low chance to succeed) and her cell was protected against dimensional travel.
That might have been something along the lines of denying a character's strengths to enforce the story development, but nothing of that happened.
I agree with you, that this kind of enforcement shouldn't happen, and it did not from my point of view! So, no problem.
What I don't agree with, is your stance, that characters who are strong in one area (i.e. Ubaar's Strength) will automatically be the best of the best of the best and unable to beat in any way regardless by whom, unless he is at least a god (slight exaggeration!). Anyone who is dedicated and focused on one thing will have the chance to be as good, PC or NPC. Maybe I have missed the part, that we are all handpicked by the gods themselves to be in this mission.
Anyways...
The only thing I found a bit weird is that part in the carriage before knocking Rahja out, where they still acted as during the evening before. I mean, why the hell didn't they just leave her unconscious or bound her or anything, until she was in the cell! Because of this, Rahja didn't simply leave from the carriage (she could have, easily), as there was no point in believing that the guys had something like that in mind and so she just played along for the time being. Anyways, even without that part she would have ended up in that cell, so it doesn't really matter much.
Bye
Thanee
Rahja isn't the most perceptive, so while she probably isn't particulary easy to fool, a skilled person would be able to do it and those guys obviously were quite good at it.
I would have had an issue with what's happening, if Danilo had a ring of continuous protection from domination or made his Will save multiple times (from my judgement he should have a really low chance to succeed) and her cell was protected against dimensional travel.
That might have been something along the lines of denying a character's strengths to enforce the story development, but nothing of that happened.
I agree with you, that this kind of enforcement shouldn't happen, and it did not from my point of view! So, no problem.
What I don't agree with, is your stance, that characters who are strong in one area (i.e. Ubaar's Strength) will automatically be the best of the best of the best and unable to beat in any way regardless by whom, unless he is at least a god (slight exaggeration!). Anyone who is dedicated and focused on one thing will have the chance to be as good, PC or NPC. Maybe I have missed the part, that we are all handpicked by the gods themselves to be in this mission.
Anyways...
The only thing I found a bit weird is that part in the carriage before knocking Rahja out, where they still acted as during the evening before. I mean, why the hell didn't they just leave her unconscious or bound her or anything, until she was in the cell! Because of this, Rahja didn't simply leave from the carriage (she could have, easily), as there was no point in believing that the guys had something like that in mind and so she just played along for the time being. Anyways, even without that part she would have ended up in that cell, so it doesn't really matter much.
Bye
Thanee
DM_Matt
First Post
Reaper: The takien-advantage-of-while-drunk thing isn't sometihng tha tI lose a lot, but I guess that it wouldnt hurt much to say that its more like a situation of "Will saves are reduced while drunk." As is often the case, answering your complaints tends to require telling the players more about the bad guys than they would otherwise know to answer.
Regarding characters that have specialties, NPCs CAN focus on minimizing them if they have good reason to now aobut them. The one time taht I hit Ubaar's specialty, he was facing a fleashbound vampire psychic warrior/diamond warrior, a monkish char that specialized ing rappling because sucking blood is vital for his continuede existance and he needs a pin for that. Ubaar eventually prevailed, but not without some help from his team (a dispel magic to drop his opponent's buffs). A specialized PC doesnt necessarily get to be the greatest at that thing and utterly with no need to be part of a team.
With Ravin, he blasted the orcs pretty good, but a lone artillery mage does get overwhelmed by large groups of fighters. The NPC figher managed to prevent it to an extent, but I don't see that as an attack on his specialty.
Rahja: Danilo was playing with you. He gets off on being trusted by his victims. Real sick bastard.
Regarding characters that have specialties, NPCs CAN focus on minimizing them if they have good reason to now aobut them. The one time taht I hit Ubaar's specialty, he was facing a fleashbound vampire psychic warrior/diamond warrior, a monkish char that specialized ing rappling because sucking blood is vital for his continuede existance and he needs a pin for that. Ubaar eventually prevailed, but not without some help from his team (a dispel magic to drop his opponent's buffs). A specialized PC doesnt necessarily get to be the greatest at that thing and utterly with no need to be part of a team.
With Ravin, he blasted the orcs pretty good, but a lone artillery mage does get overwhelmed by large groups of fighters. The NPC figher managed to prevent it to an extent, but I don't see that as an attack on his specialty.
Rahja: Danilo was playing with you. He gets off on being trusted by his victims. Real sick bastard.
dead_radish
Explorer
Stupid double posts....
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