FR, GH, AU - character power levels

[Beholder Bob]

Hey folks, do you think an xth level character from one world tends to be more powerful then fellows from another? Are forgotten realms characters tougher then the guys from GH? More magic items or overpowerd spells available? Better stat generation methods? Honest, which is more powerful.

 

[CRGreathouse]

Yes; yes; yes; yes. I don't have Arcana Unearthed (though I might pick it up soon), so I can't compare GH and FR to AU right now.

 

[Beholder Bob]

But how are they different. Is it the spells, prestige classes, stat generation?

 

[Dinkeldog]

The addition of the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting (FRCS) and Magic of Faerun bump up the FR characters a lot compared to GH. The biggest addition to my mind is the feats, particularly the spellcasting feats. Spellcasting Prodigy and Reactive Counterspell, in particular, are much more effective than anything I've seen in the PH or the splatbooks.

 

[Beholder Bob]

I haven't seen Reactive Counterspell in use yet, but it seems spell prodigy is a must have feat for spell casters (well, not everyone, but most!). Also, is it just me, or are the spells overpowered (create enchanted tattoo, for example)? It seems that way to me, but I'm worried I'm being biased.

 

[Nightfall]

Regarding AU, while 1st through 7th level characters might be a little stronger than their other counterparts, the fact is AU is more BALANCED through out each level. Compare what a Runethane with access to a few complex spells or even one exotic spell can do compared to a cleric. Or a 20th level paladin to a champion. Believe me, while they do start the scaling a little earlier, overall D&D core classes do better than AU counterparts. The difference is the magic system is far more flexible and usable in other situations than combat and vancian magic.

 

[Dinkeldog]

There's nothing more powerful than Wish.

Broken spells didn't seem to be the big problem in the FRCS or MoF (except maybe a couple Druid spells--Blindsight, anyone?) Broken spells is much more the sin of Relics and Rituals (especially the first one).

Reactive Counterspell in 3.0 was game breaking. Cast Haste, then something else. When the bad guy casts something counter it and you still get to cast a spell on your turn. Keep a second Haste or Slow (for the automatic counter) and the combat could come down to who got their Haste off first.

 

[Beholder Bob]

There's nothing more powerful than Wish....Broken spells is much more the sin of Relics and Rituals (especially the first one)....Reactive Counterspell in 3.0 was game breaking...

1st) Yeah, Relics & Rituals put out some real monster spells, but I thought R&R II was worse (Stone Bolt, and that 2nd level energized arrow (if you follow the spell description) was heinous. I love added spells to fill out the variety of magic available, but you need to pick spells individually from both of their books!

2nd) Yikes! Sounds like an alpha magic card....

Xth) How about prestige classes? Are they pretty much the same from the 2 main worlds (GH & FR)? I'm trying to decide which prestige classes to allow, and which ones offer flavor more then obscene power.

3rd) Well, I know of at least one spell that kicks wish in the dust. "Anger Wife" (also known as "get buddy in trouble", but that was for the Blackmoor campaign). When used properly, you can defeat a DM, and usually only requires a verbal component. Now that is power!

 

[ruleslawyer]

Reactive Counterspell in 3.0 was game breaking. Cast Haste, then something else. When the bad guy casts something counter it and you still get to cast a spell on your turn. Keep a second Haste or Slow (for the automatic counter) and the combat could come down to who got their Haste off first.

You seriously think that Reactive Counterspell is overpowered? I actually tend to think that RC should have been incorporated as a core rule into the counterspelling rules. As it stands, it is much, much more effective to shut down an opposing spellcaster using a damaging spell (which can either incapacitate the caster entirely, or force a Concentration check with a nice inflated DC) than to counterspell.

Anyway, I tend to think that the big problem with FR balance is the basic fact that more options means more power. Having access to additional sourcebooks is always going to allow for a more powerful character. I'd say that a GH PC with access to the classbooks (Sword and Fist, etc.) is likely to be more powerful than an FR character without them. Other than the incantatrix (which is really overbalanced due to its lack of weaknesses, rather than any particular broken powers) and a few spells, FR's pretty OK.

AU PCs are much more balanced across the 20 levels of core play. The classes, especially the spellcasters, are a bit tougher than D&D counterparts at low levels, but the high-level AU PCs are generally not as powerful as a high-level single-classed wizard or cleric.

 

[Beholder Bob]

What FR spells are overpowered?