FR Preview-Sword Mage and Genasi

[Rechan]

Con based:
Booming Blade
Chilling Blow

Str based:
Greenflame Blade
Flame Cyclone
Burning Blade

It seems I've misinterpreted the Swordmage class. I thought that some powers would be Con vs. AC.

They're broken down into
Assault: Int, Str secondary
Shielding: Int, Con secondayr.

 

[Rechan]

Not to mention, Aegis of Assault -nullifies- artillery/controller monsters. They either have to attack you, or you r in thr base killin thr mans. It doesn't JUST work on melee monsters, you know.

Granted you have to be close enough to nab them in the Aegis's "Close Burst 2" area.

 

[captainstewart]

Granted you have to be close enough to nab them in the Aegis's "Close Burst 2" area.

As I read it, that only means that they have to be within the burst 2 when you mark them. As long as you keep the mark on the target (which shouldn't be too difficult, as it says that it lasts until the end of the encounter or you decide to mark a different target with your aegis power), you can teleport and smack them from anywhere within 10 squares of the guy. So by all means, feel free to run up there, mark that nasty ranged dude, and keep mitigating his attacks with your defender stats while you beat down some minions, and when he decides to hit someone a little more "squishy" you can jump on over to him and give him a slap in the face.

Now if you want to get really creative, go crazy marking someone who's stuck in melee with another one of your allies, and then hop on over when he goes for your buddy, jumping in at his backside to get the flanking bonus and send him reeling right into the middle of your buddies (or some lava flow or the like). That ought to teach him to pay more attention to you.

Talk about retribution.

 

[Aenghus]

Especially powerful if you are standing next to a wall, cliff, pit, lavaflow etc.

Too powerful? I don't know, but I'm biased because I dislike (perhaps even hate) lots of low level teleporting powers. Doesn't fit with my vision of fantasy setting.
Cheers

I've seen and talked to some who don't like the low level teleports. It does get in the way of running low fantasy, I grant.

Specifically in relation to the swordmage, it's appearing in a Forgotten Realms supplement, which a setting that has more tended to high fantasy.

 

[jimtillman]

Greenflame Blade is overpowered. It's a super-cleave.

It is better then cleave for killing minions which is cleaves main use but that does not not mean that it is overpowered.
we will need to measure fighter and shield mage side by side in completness to determine if shieldmage is a batter class.

 

[Stalker0]

It is better then cleave for killing minions which is cleaves main use but that does not not mean that it is overpowered.
we will need to measure fighter and shield mage side by side in completness to determine if shieldmage is a batter class.

While having a better cleave does not make the swordmage overpowered, its a good indication that greenflame blade is overpowered. Since the swordmage and fighter have the same role, we can compare their powers directly.

Cleave's main strength is autokilling minions. Greenflame does the same thing, except even better. Since cleave isn't considered a weak power, then greenflame blade is a very strong, potentially overpowered power ESPECIALLY because it works just like cleave does and does it better.

Its one thing to have a good power that does a slightly different effect, its another to have a power that literally does the EXACT same thing a fighter's power does....and do it even better.

 

[Rechan]

The difference has been pointed out: Cleave hits someone adjacent to the Fighter. Greenflame hits all adjacent to the target. It's only going to kill minions that are standing together in a formation.

I would argue that the advantage Greenflame gives is going to come up less frequently than Cleave.

 

[Mistwell]

While having a better cleave does not make the swordmage overpowered, its a good indication that greenflame blade is overpowered. Since the swordmage and fighter have the same role, we can compare their powers directly.

Cleave's main strength is autokilling minions. Greenflame does the same thing, except even better. Since cleave isn't considered a weak power, then greenflame blade is a very strong, potentially overpowered power ESPECIALLY because it works just like cleave does and does it better.

Its one thing to have a good power that does a slightly different effect, its another to have a power that literally does the EXACT same thing a fighter's power does....and do it even better.

WOTC seems to have gone to great lengths to balance things not on an individual level, but on a whole level. You can no longer accurately compare one power to another directly, because too much of the balance is caught up in which ability is used, what other things are lost to opportunity cost, feats or lack thereof that are either anticipated or denied, and similar things.

That doesn't mean greenflame blade is balanced. But it does mean you cannot just directly compare two powers and declare one overpowered based on that small amount of analysis. The system just doesn't work that way, and isn't built that way.

 

[keterys]

Greenflame does the same thing, except even better. Since cleave isn't considered a weak power, then greenflame blade is a very strong, potentially overpowered power ESPECIALLY because it works just like cleave does and does it better.

Well, it only does it better if multiple minions cluster right next to an enemy. Cleave can hit a minion and monster that are 2 apart (such as when they're flanking the fighter or someone else) - which I think may well be a more common situation. Tough to be certain.

Further, fire damage is hands down worse for minion killing. 0% of minions resist weapon damage while 20% resist fire damage, so would not die to Greenflame.

Its one thing to have a good power that does a slightly different effect, its another to have a power that literally does the EXACT same thing a fighter's power does....and do it even better.

It isn't just better. It's different in some key ways.

 

[Lord Sessadore]

Well, it only does it better if multiple minions cluster right next to an enemy. Cleave can hit a minion and monster that are 2 apart (such as when they're flanking the fighter or someone else) - which I think may well be a more common situation. Tough to be certain.

Further, fire damage is hands down worse for minion killing. 0% of minions resist weapon damage while 20% resist fire damage, so would not die to Greenflame.

It isn't just better. It's different in some key ways.

Just curious - is that "20% of minions resist fire damage" an actual statistic from analysis of the MM? Or is it just a made up stat that sounded about right?