D&D 5E (2014) Free 60+ page Guide to Sword & Sorcery for 5E D&D

[S'mon]

I see your point, I guess I'm just using "race" out of habit since that term has been used in D&D since forever. That said, there are many definitions of the word "race", such as "a group of persons related by common descent or heredity" and "any people united by common history, language, cultural traits, etc." so rest assured that I'm not using the term to promote any specific agenda.

As for alternatives, "ethnicity" would work, but doesn't exactly roll off the tongue. PF2 calls it "Ancestry". I guess even "Peoples of Xoth" could work (but "pick a people" sounds a bit weird?). I'm open to other suggestions here...

If you're going to lose 'race' for your human races, I'd normally suggest 'culture' rather than 'ancestry' (edit: except that you have Culture for Civilised/Decadent etc). The Xoth races do seem a mix of culture & descent - of course IRL the two traditionally went together. Traditionally in English-English one might talk about the Scottish race, the English race, being a common descent or heredity as you say. But no one says the American race - my American ex always objected if I called someone (eg our son) "half American".
Ethny is better than Ethnicity, but both sound too anthropological to me. Folk is likely to cause issues with people who think Race is racist, and anyway being Germanic it sounds more Tolkien than Howard.
Ancestry is ok, and means the same thing as traditional understanding of race, but overall I think Culture is best since it would allow for a PC to be raised in a different culture than their ancestry. OTOH one could argue that Ancestry fits genre norms more closely - in the genre one's blood/nature tends to show through over nurture. And since you have Culture for the 'cultural archetypes' it would need fewer changes. Hmm!

 

[TheCosmicKid]

If you're going to lose 'race' for your human races, I'd normally suggest 'culture' rather than 'ancestry' (edit: except that you have Culture for Civilised/Decadent etc). The Xoth races do seem a mix of culture & descent - of course IRL the two traditionally went together. Traditionally in English-English one might talk about the Scottish race, the English race, being a common descent or heredity as you say. But no one says the American race - my American ex always objected if I called someone (eg our son) "half American".
Ethny is better than Ethnicity, but both sound too anthropological to me. Folk is likely to cause issues with peope who think Race is racist, and anyway being Germanic it sounds more Tolkien than Howard.
Ancestry is ok, and means the same thing as traditional understanding of race, but overall I think Culture is best since it would allow for a PC to be raised in a different culture than their ancestry. OTOH one could argue that Ancestry fits genre norms more closely - in the genre one's blood/nature tends to show through over nurture. And since you have Culture for the 'cultural archetypes' it would need fewer changes. Hmm!

For this purpose I like "nation" or "tribe". "Descent" or "ancestry" connote to me a focus on who your distant forebears were rather than who you are: Conan is of Atlantean ancestry but the Cimmerian nation. For the record, I think "race" is fine, and it's definitely what was used in the genre being emulated -- it seems especially odd to switch to conspicuous progressive language on this subject but still write about about women and gender roles in faithfully 1930s terms. But while we're brainstorming alternatives, there are my thoughts.

 

[S'mon]

For this purpose I like "nation" or "tribe".

Nation is good, a Latin-derived word which connotes birth ancestry (same root as natal, native). Tribe doesn't seem quite right for more civilised cultures, but I'm not sure Xoth has any where it would be truly inappropriate - you likely wouldn't talk of the Roman or Atlantean or Hellenic 'tribe', but Xoth doesn't seem to actually have a culture like that. OTOH a nation like Iran/Persia typically is made up of several ethnic tribes. So I think 'nation' is better.

 

[CapnZapp]

My personal advice is to not have a public discussion on such a contentious issue. Pick your choice in private and then stick to your guns. You want the discussion to be about your product, not arguing over what isn't or could be in your product.

For the record, I think "race" is fine, and it's definitely what was used in the genre being emulated -- it seems especially odd to switch to conspicuous progressive language on this subject but still write about about women and gender roles in faithfully 1930s terms.

Yes, this.

 

[cbwjm]

I went and had a look at the old mongoose conan game to see what they used for race. They used race when describing them. They did title the chapter as Peoples of the Hyborean Age. Honestly, I see nothing wrong with just using race.

 

[S'mon]

I went and had a look at the old mongoose conan game to see what they used for race. They used race when describing them. They did title the chapter as Peoples of the Hyborean Age. Honestly, I see nothing wrong with just using race.

As I mentioned, I don't much like how Mongoose Conan did stat mods by race, with eg Cimmerians taking an INT penalty. Though the high stats for Hyboreans did encourage playing the dominant culture - the stats seemed more about encouraging particular play choices, eg discourage Cimmerians because they don't appear in the stories, except for Conan himself.

I like how the Xoth guide doesn't have this issue, with the stat mods for 'cultural archetype', so eg Civilised and Decadent PCs have different stats, even if they are both nobles from the same culture/race.

 

[cbwjm]

As I mentioned, I don't much like how Mongoose Conan did stat mods by race, with eg Cimmerians taking an INT penalty. Though the high stats for Hyboreans did encourage playing the dominant culture - the stats seemed more about encouraging particular play choices, eg discourage Cimmerians because they don't appear in the stories, except for Conan himself.

I like how the Xoth guide doesn't have this issue, with the stat mods for 'cultural archetype', so eg Civilised and Decadent PCs have different stats, even if they are both nobles from the same culture/race.

I guess I just never felt discouraged by an int penalty to play a Cimmerian.

I do also like what is being done in the Xoth books with culture/race, I think it is an interesting way to do it and just suggesting which cultures each race tends to gravitate towards.

 

[TheCosmicKid]

OTOH a nation like Iran/Persia typically is made up of several ethnic tribes. So I think 'nation' is better.

This is a nitpick, but since we're really digging down into the connotations here it seems appropriate: a "nation" is, in traditional usage, a genetically-and-culturally-homogeneous unit, roughly synonymous with "ethnicity" or "tribe". As the trailer for 300 put it with some numerical hyperbole but surprising terminological precision: "The thousand nations of the Persian Empire descend upon you!" You would not call the Persian Empire a "nation" in its own right. It was a state, but it was not a nation-state. (Indeed, in some contexts, this super-national statehood is the definition of an "empire".) The distinction between "nation" and "state" has become blurry since nation-states came into fashion in the Old World and colonial/immigrant countries like the USA started to emerge in the New World. (My history is Eurocentric here, of course, because we are speaking of English words.) Because of this blurriness, I wouldn't suggest "nation" as a substitute for "race" in, say, Pathfinder: to speak of an "elven nation" would connote to modern ears a sociopolitical unity among elves that seems inaccurate. But I think it still works in Xoth.

 

[TheCosmicKid]

I do also like what is being done in the Xoth books with culture/race, I think it is an interesting way to do it and just suggesting which cultures each race tends to gravitate towards.

Thirded. And you can also easily do stuff like have a character born of a mostly-decadent people but raised in a barbaric one.

 

[S'mon]

This is a nitpick, but since we're really digging down into the connotations here it seems appropriate: a "nation" is, in traditional usage, a genetically-and-culturally-homogeneous unit, roughly synonymous with "ethnicity" or "tribe". As the trailer for 300 put it with some numerical hyperbole but surprising terminological precision: "The thousand nations of the Persian Empire descend upon you!" You would not call the Persian Empire a "nation" in its own right.

Well I was thinking more of modern Iran, which is a nation, than the Persian Empire at its height. Or Afghanistan, which is a nation with several very distinct tribes, though the Pushtun are practically a nation themselves. But I agree that 'the Persians' were originally one tribe, and an organic nation tends to have a single core ethnic tribe, or occasionally two related tribes.

Looking at fictional examples, does it work to talk about the '5 nations' of Wakanda? I think it is common to use 'tribe' as a sub-national ethnic unit. But nation works as a broader ethnic unit, which I think is your view too.