Free form spellcasting ?

[gpetruc]

I was wondering if it could be possible to have a skill based spellcasting system with no fixed spells: the mage decides what kind of effect he wants to achieve, pays the mana (or something similar), rolls a skill checks and go.

I know that this would be difficult, and probably at the end wouldn't be better than the original rules, but I just wanted to try.

There were similar rules on some fan-created Dragonlance-5th Age material that I found some time ago on the net, but I've lost it and I can't find the link anymore.
(If someone has it or knows where to find it, please post it here and/or mail me)

Also this is partially inspired to the magic system of Dusk and to Magic the Gathering

Anyway my idea was:
1) Divide mana and skills in some colours / spheres: either 5 a la Magic The Gathering or maybe 7 just to have greater originality. For example:
- Green: Nature & Healing
- Yellow: Light and protection
- Red: Fire and Earth
- Blue: Air and Water
- Silver: Divination & Metamagics
- Black: Necromancy and Distruction
- Violet: Illusion and Enchantment

2) Give the Mage 4 magical skill points/level (x4 at level 1) that can be used to buy the 7 magical skills. No int bonus to magical skill points; an ability score bonus applies in skill checks, depending on the color: It could be either Int, Wis or Cha, and some skills might allow different options (For example Green could be Wis or Cha).
With these points one could master 4 colors,

3) The maxium number of mana you can use in one day is limited by your level, but the maximum mana of one color you can have depends on the ranks.
You gather mana with a skill check (modified by some circumstances: in the middle of the ocean it would be more difficult to tap for red than for blue)
I'd like to limit it only with ranks, but the ranks don't scale in a nice way (start at 4, grow +1/level)

4) The DC to cast spells will be something like the spell level, while the mana cost will depend expecially on the caster level the spell is cast: something like a caster level 5 fireball should cost less mana than one at caster level 10.

5) The type of effect you want to achieve determines the colors of the spell (for example something that mimics a fireball should be red). You might cast "mixed" spells to achieve multiple effects (but I don't know how to rule this)

6) On a failure on the casting check, you should make a Concentration check with a DC depending on the number of mana points used or face some nasty effect

7) The limits to the spellcasting would be:
- total number of mana points/day
- a skill check is required for every casting
- you will need to tap for mana, that will reduce the number of spells you could cast in a single combat
- you could not master all the colors

8) The positive aspects would be
- much more options for the mages
- easy integration of metamagic feats & so: simply give bonuses to the casting DC
- one could have spell-dueling rules or something that would allow to cast clever spell combos instead of just throwing down the heaviest damage spell
---------------------------------------------

What do you think ?
Anyone is interested / has some suggestions / random thoughts / similar house rules ?

 

[Suldulin]

sounds similar to Elements of Magic by Natural 20 press

 

[gpetruc]

sounds similar to Elements of Magic by Natural 20 press

I haven't got the pdf, but I will look for it.

 

[Yair]

Ars Magica

This method (and the Elements of Magic) are very similar to the Ars Magica method, which I find is far superior but does not convert easily to d20 System. The 4th Edition Ars Magica game has a pretty clear way of quickly assigning spell levels, presents many options on how to cast spells, and so on.
You can get the book for free as a pdf from RPGNow.com, if you want.
Again, while the ArM system creates a "truer" wizard in my opinion, it is a skill-based game with no hit points... the conversion is not easy.
I did not particularly liked the Elements of Magic. While the idea was sound, and the execution seemed reasonable... well, I never playtested it nor did I ever read it too throughly... but it just seemed too complex and not enough elegant. YMMV.

 

[Kahuna Burger]

sounds similar to Elements of Magic by Natural 20 press

the skill checks in that were more for a few specific skills/abilities than the overall system, iirc. Though I've been considering a very "subtle magic" skill based class extrapolated from that system.

what he's looking for reminds me a lot of the atomic fuzion magic system. (which used to be free but is now for sale - go figure.) Its supposed to be a 'plug in' system that can be used in any rpg, and is very tweakable. but the base system involves skill checks to make up spells and then other ones to cast them. you can learn/create spells in an organized fashion or make them up on the fly.

another similar system is the Worldtree "grammer" model of magic. I haven't played it much, but its kinda cool...

kahuna burger

 

[gpetruc]

I've downloaded Ars Magica, but it's long (272 pages) so I don't know how much it will take to me to browse through it.

I had some other ideas about the mana and the spell per day limits:
Allow two ways to gather mana:
- a complex ritual that lasts 1 hour that replenishes your mana pool; the ritual can be performed only at the 4 magical tmes when the magical connection to the mana forces of the world is completely open: dawn, noon, sunset and midnight. (and so, no more than 4 times/day)
Also, one may add that if the ritual is done without having rested some (at least 2) hours before, you are automatically fatigued until you rest that number of hours.
This would reduce the number of times it can resonably be replenished by an adventuring wizard to 1 or 2/day.
- an action (choose between full round, move action or free action; move gathers 50%, free action 25%) and a skill check that replenishes a limited amount of mana of a single color, based on the check result.
There is a cumulative penalty (-2, -5?) for each check made between two magical times (the same as before).
A failed check causes the caster to become fatigued (for 10 minutes, or the rest of the encounter if it lasts longer)

In this way you will start with a decent, but not that wide, amount of mana but when it is exhausted you can pull some other mana, but not ad infinitum.
Note that mana has a color, that can result in needing to regain mana more often: if you tought you where having to fight fire-based creatures maybe you've gathered mostly blue mana during the ritual, and if you meet unexpected cold-based creatures you'll need red mana ...

The idea is: about 40% of the daily mana should come from the ritual, and another 30% from a series of skill checks (after that amount the penalty should be so high that you wouldn't be able to get any more); in short adventures Mages will have less mana and so they will be weaker, while in longer ones, in which for example they can perform more than one ritual, they will have more power.

 

[Thresher]

Mage the Ascention by White Wolf, I guess if you could come up with a way of converting that over to a D20 system it would be good, as for "how" Im not even going to start but it was one of the best free-form systems Ive played.

 

[gpetruc]

I've managed to have a look at the magic rules in Ars Magica. Very nice
Anyway I won't try a straight conversion mostly because that magic does not fit the standard D&D world.

After some tries I thought about this for the spellcasting system:
To cast a spell you pay an amount of colored mana and colorless one (that usually is simply mana of the wrong color). The total mana is the spell power and is used instead of the caster level to determine variable effects such as damage, range, base duration of the spells. It also determines the save DC (that is 10 + half spell power + casting ability modif. such as int or cha)

1) I will than make a list of "spell schemes" (such as something like a generic fireball, bull's strenght, fly, cure wounds, ...) Each one has a base casting DC, colored mana cost, duration & so on.
2) The caster, after having chosen the scheme, and fixed the spell power by paying additional colorless mana, can then makes some changes to the spells.
Nearly all of the changes are not spell-specific, and so it won't be many rules to know.
Examples include changing the duration scale (from minutes to round or hours, for example), the number of targets, the type of energy, and so on. Each change adds a cost (or reduces the cost) of the spell, and alters the DC, but does not change the spell power (If you pay more mana to enlarge a 10d6 fireball, you don't also raise the damage with those mana)
At the end you have the final (total) cost and the DC to cast it


The spell schemes will be designed with the idea that a spell of level L should cost about L colored mana and have a DC of 12 + 2*L
(Note that casting skills depend only on ranks, the base ability modifier (no enhancement bonuses) and eventually the specialization; nothing else interferes)

Any caster can also make spells outside the schemes, if they are balanced with them.