Free RPG day Ebberon Black Ooze escape

teachamath

First Post
This came up today as we played through the adventure. The black cloud trapped my invoker. Other party members used slides, pushes, and pulls but the dm refused to allow the character with no skill in athletics to immediately be outside the engulf. I believe this has already come up on these forums. Isn't it a rule somewhere that forced movement makes the creature move and the player remains in the space OR does the player move also with the forced movement?
 

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In a game that I participated we had similar situation with a Gelationous Cube. The Game Master ruled that since the cube engulfs the heroes in its space and may move normally with them in it, it also doesn't release them when affected by forced movement. In any case, we regarded this as a reasonable on-the-spot GM ruling (or houserule, if you wish), not a solid in-game rule.

We basically destroyed the Cube from within. Good times!
 

It would have been okay but the ooze was 10 necrotic per round and dazed. The player rolled well everywhere else but could not roll high enough with the pregens to push himself out of the ooze therefore he went down in three rounds due to the damage. What made this extra lame was the fact that the 2nd level adventure ooze had 200+ hit points and insubstantial and only had vulnerable to radiant which the paladin had an encounter to attack and the invoker was trapped inside trying to get out so she could only roll to get out with an 18 on the die for the best chance.
 
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If one can accept that an ooze can be pushed at all, especially by a power such as Tide of Iron or Bull Rush, one can accept that you can free a friend from the ooze with the same power. Perhaps grabbing your friend and then slamming your shield into the ooze to pull him out.

The rules should come first, in my opinion, and then fluff should come next. As horrible as that may sound, it's not really a big deal most of the time. "Engulf" could mean that your friend is slowly sinking into the gelatinous cube, and once they die they are in the middle, immovable, and probably a skeleton. This allows a push attack to be considered more realistic in this particular situation. Sure, if you flavor it as the ooze being neigh impossible to escape, then it doesn't make sense to be able to escape. But why flavor it that way to begin with in 4E? 4E players have generally decided that save or sucks/die should be gone, limited, or have conditions for redemption: specifically, in this case, forced movement mechanics. Redemption might be the wrong word, but what I mean is more than a single die roll chance to not die/suck. (Not saying any other way is wrong, just that those playing a 4E adventure have already bought into that or are learning that.)

Now, if it's a cloud of darkness or whatever, and it is accepted that it can be forced to move, why would the engulfee be forced to move with it? It's not even substantial, how can it "hold" a character that well really? I think that DM's ruling was one, poor fluff, and two, because of number one, a poor place to make the fluff or mechanics stand.
 

The black cloud trapped my invoker. Other party members used slides, pushes, and pulls but the dm refused to allow the character with no skill in athletics to immediately be outside the engulf.
This creature looks like it was (essentially) a re-skinned Gelatinous Cube. If so, and the "Engulf" power reads the same, then your DM was wrong. The "Living Darkness Spell" had grabbed the invoker, and the grab combat move specifically says:

Effects that End a Grab: If you are affected by a
condition that prevents you from taking opportunity
actions (such as dazed, stunned, surprised, or unconscious),
you immediately let go of a grabbed enemy.
If you move away from the creature you’re grabbing,
you let go and the grab ends. If a pull, a push, or a
slide moves you or the creature you’re grabbing out
of your reach, the grab ends.
In a game that I participated we had similar situation with a Gelationous Cube.

Your DM completely screwed this one up. He owes you a bevarage of your choice.
 

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