Free RPG day Ebberon Black Ooze escape
- Thread starter teachamath
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Nail
First Post
...because.....
keterys
First Post
Friend of mine picked me up a copy, so swung by to grab it and look at the stats. It's very, very rude if you don't have a lot of radiant damage.
[sblock]Its Engulf is almost word for word, but it's less accurate and it doesn't immobilize on its basic attack. Its insubstantial is defeated by radiant (and it has vuln 10 radiant, too), it has powers for moving over people and dealing necrotic damage to them when it does... it has the hp expected for a non-insubstantial brute, however, so it could definitely start off very violently as it shifts over the party for 5 necrotic then engulfs 2 people (or tries).[/sblock]
[sblock]Its Engulf is almost word for word, but it's less accurate and it doesn't immobilize on its basic attack. Its insubstantial is defeated by radiant (and it has vuln 10 radiant, too), it has powers for moving over people and dealing necrotic damage to them when it does... it has the hp expected for a non-insubstantial brute, however, so it could definitely start off very violently as it shifts over the party for 5 necrotic then engulfs 2 people (or tries).[/sblock]
Against a level 2 party? That seems perfectly balanced if you assume it's a math fix.
Nail
First Post
With only the OP's description, and your (very timely!) post of the engulf power, it sure looks like a re-skinned GCube to me. (Swap necrotic for acid, slip in vulnerable radiant to compensate for insubstantial, etc.)
keterys
First Post
So, given that its Engulf power is the same as the Gelatinous Cube's, I can't argue against an interpretation that moving the Cube would not move the party member.
Remember that the PC is not in a specific square - they're specifically 'in its space' and that they can shift out into any space when they escape the grab. So, what's required to escape the grab? Well, forced movement works if the forced movement brings it so they're out of its reach. Okay, so who gets to pick which square the PC is in, since it's 'in its space'? And if you push it 2, leaving the PC adjacent, do they pop back 'into its space' since that's what happens when they're grabbed by it? Or does it happen when it chooses to move?
And when it's forced to move, instead of choosing, is there something that stops its ability to carry the PC around with it?
You could easily rule either way on this one. Though, as said, I'd personally rule in favor of the forced movement being favorable to the PC and dropping them loose fairly easily.
Remember that the PC is not in a specific square - they're specifically 'in its space' and that they can shift out into any space when they escape the grab. So, what's required to escape the grab? Well, forced movement works if the forced movement brings it so they're out of its reach. Okay, so who gets to pick which square the PC is in, since it's 'in its space'? And if you push it 2, leaving the PC adjacent, do they pop back 'into its space' since that's what happens when they're grabbed by it? Or does it happen when it chooses to move?
And when it's forced to move, instead of choosing, is there something that stops its ability to carry the PC around with it?
You could easily rule either way on this one. Though, as said, I'd personally rule in favor of the forced movement being favorable to the PC and dropping them loose fairly easily.
Insubstantial usually means a drastic reduction in HPs. I don't think vulnerable to radiant but full HPs is anything like fair compensation unless the entire party is tossing radiant damage constantly.
Nail
First Post
True, but didn't keterys post:
"Its insubstantial is defeated by radiant".
To me, that implies it is not longer insubstantial when hit by radiant damage (for that turn). If so, then only one PC has to have radiant attacks (and he has to hit with them). If that's not true, then....then the PCs are hosed.
To me, that implies it is not longer insubstantial when hit by radiant damage (for that turn). If so, then only one PC has to have radiant attacks (and he has to hit with them). If that's not true, then....then the PCs are hosed.
Hellcow
Adventurer
Yup. But the tactics I suggested were completely different, and unfortunately it really changes the threat presented by the encounter. Spoilers follower.
My vision of the encounter is built more on being creepy than utterly lethal. My original vision is that the creature won't even engage you immediately; it waits for someone to move into the interior before it acts. It's less "BIG OOZE WAITING FOR YOU" and more "The darkness itself comes alive around you." Beyond that, the creature can't leave the darkness and if you get close to the edge will retreat to remain hidden in the center. Again, it's not supposed to be a creature in the darkness as much as it IS the darkness - so the goal should be getting out as opposed to defeating it.
Beyond this, I'd actually withhold its superior abilities - Cloud Drift and its action point - for use if it actually NEEDS them. This is a critical point where the tactics as printed differ. Essentially, I was advocating intentionally inferior tactics because it's NOT a wargame, it's a story. The scene is intended to be like the trash compactor in Star Wars IV or the Watcher in the Water in The Fellowship of the Ring - you don't fight it; you're surprised by it and you do what you can to get away from of it, getting out of the darkness where it can't follow.
So. First, I'd run it less aggressively. That's a flaw with the module as printed; I'm just saying now, if you haven't run it, it's not how I would run it. Second, if you get a character engulfed who really, simply, cannot escape, I would bend the rules to help if the PCs have a good idea. Personally, I'd let someone using a sliding power (the pregen artificer's Thundering Armor, the sorcerer's lightning and thunder powers) to push the darkness OFF of someone its engulfed. Per my original tactics, radiant attacks draw its fire, and I'd consider having it release someone to go after the enemy if it's struck with radiant damage. Then you have to figure out how to get the radiant attacker out, but hey, it is supposed to be a challenge.
And yes, its insubstatial keyword should be completely ignored by radiant attacks, so they deal full damage + an additional ten points.
Beyond this, I'd actually withhold its superior abilities - Cloud Drift and its action point - for use if it actually NEEDS them. This is a critical point where the tactics as printed differ. Essentially, I was advocating intentionally inferior tactics because it's NOT a wargame, it's a story. The scene is intended to be like the trash compactor in Star Wars IV or the Watcher in the Water in The Fellowship of the Ring - you don't fight it; you're surprised by it and you do what you can to get away from of it, getting out of the darkness where it can't follow.
So. First, I'd run it less aggressively. That's a flaw with the module as printed; I'm just saying now, if you haven't run it, it's not how I would run it. Second, if you get a character engulfed who really, simply, cannot escape, I would bend the rules to help if the PCs have a good idea. Personally, I'd let someone using a sliding power (the pregen artificer's Thundering Armor, the sorcerer's lightning and thunder powers) to push the darkness OFF of someone its engulfed. Per my original tactics, radiant attacks draw its fire, and I'd consider having it release someone to go after the enemy if it's struck with radiant damage. Then you have to figure out how to get the radiant attacker out, but hey, it is supposed to be a challenge.
And yes, its insubstatial keyword should be completely ignored by radiant attacks, so they deal full damage + an additional ten points.
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