Freedom of Movement underwater?

[DarkJester]

How exactly does this work? I know the freedom of movement gets rid of the penalties on attacks and such, but do you still have to make swim checks? Do you sink like a stone? Do you simply walk through the water as if you'd walk through the air with an air walk?

Freedom of Movement
Abjuration
Level: Brd 4, Clr 4, Drd 4, Luck 4, Rgr 4
Components: V, S, M, DF
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal or touch
Target: You or creature touched
Duration: 10 min./level
Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)

This spell enables you or a creature you touch to move and attack normally for the duration of the spell, even under the influence of magic that usually impedes movement, such as paralysis, solid fog, slow, and web. The subject automatically succeeds on any grapple check made to resist a grapple attempt, as well as on grapple checks or Escape Artist checks made to escape a grapple or a pin.

The spell also allows the subject to move and attack normally while underwater, even with slashing weapons such as axes and swords or with bludgeoning weapons such as flails, hammers, and maces, provided that the weapon is wielded in the hand rather than hurled. The freedom of movement spell does not, however, allow water breathing.
Material Component

A leather thong, bound around the arm or a similar appendage.

 

[frankthedm]

How exactly does this work? I know the freedom of movement gets rid of the penalties on attacks and such, but do you still have to make swim checks? Do you sink like a stone? Do you simply walk through the water as if you'd walk through the air with an air walk?

Rules say nothing other than "move and attack normally". Air walk is hardly moving normally.

FAQ says swim normally.

It kind of 'falls' under "Could a web spell stretched across a chasm, catch the FoM'ed character during a fall?"

 

[green slime]

Yes.

Freedom of movement allows the character to move unhindered by the water, automatically making any required Swim checks.

BUT...

The character must be able to bouy themselves up. It is perfectly feasible for a character to have too much gear on and sink like a stone, and then walk unhindered on the bottom. Of course, there is then the little matter of breath-holding.

 

[mvincent]

From the 3.0 FAQ (if desired):
"What happens when a character who has received a
freedom of movement spell jumps or falls into water? My
DM seems to think that the character falls straight through
the water and goes “splat” on the bottom. My DM explains
that the spell eliminates all water resistance, which prevents
the character from swimming or floating.
While the DM is always right, he’s followed a faulty line of
reasoning here. It’s always a bad idea to use scientific—or
pseudoscientific—reasoning to adjudicate spells. In this case,
your DM has erroneously supposed that water resistance has
something to do with buoyancy. Buoyancy depends on the
water literally pushing something up toward the surface, and a
freedom of movement spell doesn’t prevent that any more than
it prevents a floor from pushing up against a character’s feet
and keeping him from falling through it. (You might not be in
the habit of thinking of floors as “pushing” anything, but that is
the way modern physics describes any object or body resting
on any surface; the object pushes down and the surface pushes
back with equal force.)
In any case, the freedom of movement spell (and its cousin
from earlier editions, the free action spell) has nothing to do
with eliminating water resistance or friction; it allows normal
movement and attacks even under conditions in which normal
movement and attacks are not possible, such as underwater or
when webbed, held, or entangled. Exactly how the spell
accomplishes that is unrevealed—that’s what makes it magic.
Your DM would have been on firmer ground (as it were) if he
had claimed that falling is a form of “normal movement” that
water usually prevents. That, however, is not the case. “Normal
movement” in water is swimming or walking along the bottom.
When a character under a freedom of movement effect enters
water, he makes a Swim check; if he fails, he cannot move, and
he sinks if he fails by 5 or more. Note that failing to make
progress or sinking are both “normal movement” in this
instance."

 

[ThirdWizard]

it allows normal
movement and attacks even under conditions in which normal
movement and attacks are not possible, such as underwater

This is what I don't understand. He says that freedom of movement allows normal movement in water which he finds means that it does nothing to effect movement? The "allows" part implies that normally you wouldn't be moving normally in water and the spell now lets you. If it works as the FAQ states, the spell description should have simply read "allows the subject to attack normally while underwater" without the extra "and move."

 

[mvincent]

If it works as the FAQ states, the spell description should have simply read "allows the subject to attack normally while underwater" without the extra "and move."

One could use Freedom of movement to walk upon a floor or fly at normal speed through the water.

 

[Infiniti2000]

One could use Freedom of movement to walk upon a floor or fly at normal speed through the water.

And normal fly speed through water is exactly 0, which means you can't do it, FoM or no.

 

[Dross]

This is what I don't understand. He says that freedom of movement allows normal movement in water which he finds means that it does nothing to effect movement? The "allows" part implies that normally you wouldn't be moving normally in water and the spell now lets you. If it works as the FAQ states, the spell description should have simply read "allows the subject to attack normally while underwater" without the extra "and move."

I think without the "and move" part would to some mean that your speed is still impeded in water. Afterall, you don't have to move to get 1 or more attacks.

Consider this: given the above comment, could you charge?

But I agree that the whole thing could have been worded better.

 

[ThirdWizard]

Let me clarify a bit.

There's a little bit concerning freedom of movement hidden in a table and a footnote to said table on page 92 of the DMG.

Creatures have firm footing when walking along the bottom, braced against a ship’s hull, or the like. A creature can only walk along the bottom if it wears or carries enough gear to weigh itself down—at least 16 pounds for Medium creatures, twice that for each size category larger than Medium, and half that for each size category smaller than Medium.

While swimming, you move at 1/4 speed.

While walking along the bottom, you move at 1/2 speed.

With freedom of movement you can "move" at "normal" speed. Which of these movement modes (or maybe both) this is referring to is graciously left to the reader to infer. The FAQ seems to maybe say both, but then completely fails to mention anything about full movement speed, leaving me still unsure of what its stance really is, except that you can still move "normally" underwater!

This leaves me to wonder if the Sage didn't realize speeds were an issue at all and brings into question the whole thing for me. Because it reads to me like you swim and walk as per usual (1/4 speed and 1/2 speed) according to the FAQ when under the effect of freedom of movement.

I know I'm probably being cynical, and the question was asking something different, but that's kind of the crux of what the spell does, so to completely ignore it blows my mind.

 

[mvincent]

And normal fly speed through water is exactly 0

That actually doesn't appear to be stated in the rules, and in fact both the 3.0 FAQ and the Manual of the Planes state that you can fly in water. Regardless, we already know that you can use your ground speed in water (which should suffice to answer ThirdWizard's question).