Frogreaver's Warlord 2

[FrogReaver]

As it is a martial class, I'd suggest something like a fighting style. It doesn't have to be the full list but something else that provides a benefit to the warlord themselves so that they aren't overly specialised would be good at 1st level.

Maybe. I guess here's the deal:

From level 1-3 we have at most maybe 6ish things that can be added in. 1-2 of those things must be subclass abilities. That doesn't leave a lot of design space for little things like fighting styles and such.

We already know healing or temp hp granting is a must have. We also know that attacking granting is something we want to give the Warlord here. Also buffing allies is also a big part of what he does. That should come here as well. That's already 3 things we are trying to give him in that level range, along with whatever subclass abilities he gets.

The issue with giving the warlord anything he doesn't absolutely need to fulfill his concept (especially in the early levels) is that there just isn't a lot of space left for things like fighting styles.

Maybe there is a design that works better, though [MENTION=6801209]mellored[/MENTION] will probably complain it's even more like spells.

 

[FrogReaver]

This should be tied to a stat. Nor should there be a fixed "5" there. So easy solution, Stat Bonus + Warlord Level in Temporary Hit Points, and make an attack using their reaction.



This is a bit messy. You've again failed to tie the abilities to a stat, which doesn't fit the 5e design philosophy. Nor does the "+3" make any sense. So easy solution, your Stat Bonus as a bonus to target's initiative.

Next part "15 move" that's pretty arbitrary as well. So an encumbered halfling can move as fast as an unencumbered elf? It should be tied to either your stat, or their movement. "Half their movement speed" could work.

Last part "+2 damage to one target" is again pretty arbitrary. Should be equal to your secondary stat bonus, similar to how a Cleric can use their Charisma for a few things. And the targeting is too complex...should just be "on their next attack".

I am also not sure if these three things are really related to each other. Seems a mish-mash of abilities.



This is again an unrelated series of abilities. How about, "You can add your [Stat] in extra damage, and if your attack hits one ally gains advantage on their attacks and gains [your stat] in hit points."



Just make this "Ally gains a bonus on all saves equal to your [Stat bonus] for one minute". Cut the damage bonus and other stuff.

A few abilities may end up moving toward stat. But by and large I disagree with most everything you've said here. Subclass abilities should be the only things that scale off a secondary stat. Why? Because the traditional warlord has abilities that key off just about any stat you can think of. Some of the abilities you mentioned may should move into the subclass space or some other incarnation of them may should be placed there. As I noted in the opening post the Rallys listed are only examples of the things that can be done with that system.

Speaking of there is precedent for abilities that key solely off class level or half class level and or off a number like +3 instead of stat. Xanathar's has a few. PHB fighters 2nd wind is another example. Barbarians giving +10 movement is another example. The paladin arbitrary aura size is another example. Anyways, there's plenty of abilities that don't key off stats and instead key off player level or player level + some arbitrary number, or just some arbitrary number.

Also adding +5 to initiative because you max int and take the lazyLord path is too much. In fact most of your suggestions are going to make more than half the abilities nearly unusable for most warlord builds or way to strong to pass up for others. That's terrible design IMO.

 

[Mistwell]

A few abilities may end up moving toward stat. But by and large I disagree with most everything you've said here. Subclass abilities should be the only things that scale off a secondary stat. Why? Because the traditional warlord has abilities that key off just about any stat you can think of. Some of the abilities you mentioned may should move into the subclass space or some other incarnation of them may should be placed there. As I noted in the opening post the Rallys listed are only examples of the things that can be done with that system.

Speaking of there is precedent for abilities that key solely off class level or half class level and or off a number like +3 instead of stat. Xanathar's has a few. PHB fighters 2nd wind is another example. Barbarians giving +10 movement is another example. The paladin arbitrary aura size is another example. Anyways, there's plenty of abilities that don't key off stats and instead key off player level or player level + some arbitrary number, or just some arbitrary number.

Also adding +5 to initiative because you max int and take the lazyLord path is too much. In fact most of your suggestions are going to make more than half the abilities nearly unusable for most warlord builds or way to strong to pass up for others. That's terrible design IMO.

You asked for people's thoughts about what you came up with. I spent the time to analyze them one by one. Simply dismissing it all with a mostly hand-waive reply is probably not a good strategy to get either 1) more people to reply to your homebrew, or 2) genuinely challenge your assumptions about what people want.

Your homebrew needs to be tightened up. The abilities should be more focused and not so jumbled. And you need some more ties to stats (primary or secondary, it doesn't matter). You don't have to take that advice, but it's sound advice that's worth more consideration than simply dismissing it. And given my advice is similar to the advice of some others in this thread (though I didn't read theirs first) should tell you there is a fairly consistent issue with your homebrew. So the question is, can you take criticism and if not, why did you ask people to comment?

 

[FrogReaver]

You asked for people's thoughts about what you came up with. I spent the time to analyze them one by one. Simply dismissing it all with a mostly hand-waive reply is probably not a good strategy to get either 1) more people to reply to your homebrew, or 2) genuinely challenge your assumptions about what people want.

Your homebrew needs to be tightened up. The abilities should be more focused and not so jumbled. And you need some more ties to stats (primary or secondary, it doesn't matter). You don't have to take that advice, but it's sound advice that's worth more consideration than simply dismissing it. And given my advice is similar to the advice of some others in this thread (though I didn't read theirs first) should tell you there is a fairly consistent issue with your homebrew. So the question is, can you take criticism and if not, why did you ask people to comment?

Just was explaining why I chose it that way long before I posted it on the thread. It wasn't that keying things off stat wasn't considered by me before anyone posted about it. It was that I dismissed it initially because of the reasons I listed. Is it that I can't take criticism or that you can't take your post being criticized? hmmmmmm... Because I don't see any rebuttal given to my points about why I had already dismissed those ideas but instead you just want to accuse me of not listening to advice. hmmmmm....

Why even post if you aren't willing to have a discussion?

 

[FrogReaver]

[MENTION=2525]Mistwell[/MENTION]

By the way, thank you for your thoughts

 

[Mistwell]

Just was explaining why I chose it that way long before I posted it on the thread. It wasn't that keying things off stat wasn't considered by me before anyone posted about it. It was that I dismissed it initially because of the reasons I listed. Is it that I can't take criticism or that you can't take your post being criticized? hmmmmmm... Because I don't see any rebuttal given to my points about why I had already dismissed those ideas but instead you just want to accuse me of not listening to advice. hmmmmm....

Why even post if you aren't willing to have a discussion?

What reasons? Your reasons amounted to "I didn't want to, and I don't have to." There's no discussion there.

But you know what, that's fine. Let's see if anyone else will give you input.

 

[FrogReaver]

What reasons? Your reasons amounted to "I didn't want to, and I don't have to." There's no discussion there.

But you know what, that's fine. Let's see if anyone else will give you input.

Just to make it easy on you I bolded everything that was a reason. I also underlined the parts of the past where I acknowledged a place in the design space where things were planned to key off a secondary stat, the subclass abilities. I even acknowledged some of the Rally abilities may move to be subclass abilities and thus key off stats.

A few abilities may end up moving toward stat. But by and large I disagree with most everything you've said here. Subclass abilities should be the only things that scale off a secondary stat. Why? Because the traditional warlord has abilities that key off just about any stat you can think of. Some of the abilities you mentioned may should move into the subclass space or some other incarnation of them may should be placed there. As I noted in the opening post the Rallys listed are only examples of the things that can be done with that system.

Speaking of there is precedent for abilities that key solely off class level or half class level and or off a number like +3 instead of stat. Xanathar's has a few. PHB fighters 2nd wind is another example. Barbarians giving +10 movement is another example. The paladin arbitrary aura size is another example. Anyways, there's plenty of abilities that don't key off stats and instead key off player level or player level + some arbitrary number, or just some arbitrary number.

Also adding +5 to initiative because you max int and take the lazyLord path is too much. In fact most of your suggestions are going to make more than half the abilities nearly unusable for most warlord builds or way to strong to pass up for others. That's terrible design IMO.

Sorry I didn't itemize the points for you or make them stand out better somehow. But as you can see they are there are plenty of reasons why I didn't think all these abilities should key off stats. Anyways, this appears to be a misunderstanding where I was unable to convey as clearly what I meant because if I could have done that this hostile and dismissive talk wouldn't have began in the first place. So I apologize for that.

 

[chunkosauruswrex]

As it is a martial class, I'd suggest something like a fighting style. It doesn't have to be the full list but something else that provides a benefit to the warlord themselves so that they aren't overly specialised would be good at 1st level.

Protection fighting style at base would be thematic.

 

[chunkosauruswrex]

This should be tied to a stat. Nor should there be a fixed "5" there. So easy solution, Stat Bonus + Warlord Level in Temporary Hit Points, and make an attack using their reaction.



This is a bit messy. You've again failed to tie the abilities to a stat, which doesn't fit the 5e design philosophy. Nor does the "+3" make any sense. So easy solution, your Stat Bonus as a bonus to target's initiative.

Next part "15 move" that's pretty arbitrary as well. So an encumbered halfling can move as fast as an unencumbered elf? It should be tied to either your stat, or their movement. "Half their movement speed" could work.

Last part "+2 damage to one target" is again pretty arbitrary. Should be equal to your secondary stat bonus, similar to how a Cleric can use their Charisma for a few things. And the targeting is too complex...should just be "on their next attack".

I am also not sure if these three things are really related to each other. Seems a mish-mash of abilities.



This is again an unrelated series of abilities. How about, "You can add your [Stat] in extra damage, and if your attack hits one ally gains advantage on their attacks and gains [your stat] in hit points."



Just make this "Ally gains a bonus on all saves equal to your [Stat bonus] for one minute". Cut the damage bonus and other stuff.

You basically said what I was going to say. This design breaks so many design rules about floating modifiers in 5e. Making a class stat agnostic is a poor choice as it seems this design has no need for any stats really.

 

[mellored]

Maybe there is a design that works better, though [MENTION=6801209]mellored[/MENTION] will probably complain it's even more like spells.

Feel free to tell me everything wrong about my attempt, and if it feel like magic or not.

http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?624264-Marshal-port-(-warlord)