From 4E to GURPS: D&D and Simulationism

[avin]

GURPS is the best RPG system. Done

 

[underthumb]

I think GURPS could get a little more traction if there were a 3rd party support system that could publish adventures and other support material. SJ games should let freelancers submit adventures and sell the good ones as pdfs at least. Even when thier WW II and Traveller lines were getting a steady stream of supplements there was little to no adventure support. Fantasy? Forget it.

Yeah, adventure support is hard when GURPS allows for so much customization. This creates high variance in the assumptions of GURPS campaigns. However, SJ Games are actively seeking adventure proposals from freelancers, but again, it's easier said than done.

As for 3rd party support, I think they're very worried about maintaining the value of the GURPS brand in terms of its reputation for quality, professionally edited works.

 

[Umbran]

I've played with GURPS for fantasy - not GUrPS 4e, and not because I disliked D&D 4e, so take my view with a grain of salt.

In general, I found combat using the GURPS rules full-on was a horrid, tedious, confusing mess. It runs much more quickly and smoothly if you use only the basics.

However, when played that way, I don't see much advantage to using GURPS over using 2e or 3e D&D restricted to lower levels.

 

[Aus_Snow]

My impression is that you can dial the complexity up or down, to a large extent. As for doing 'D&D-like', Dungeon Fantasy looks to be the shiznit. Also, I have a sneaking suspicion that most of what gets in the way of people adopting GURPS is, well, its name first of all, and the. . . 'configuration' of the system, I guess - not the way it actually plays - perhaps second. Doesn't do itself (or rather, its popularity) any major favours there. Shame, because it's got a lot going for it, including the best RPG supplements, overall.

I've had some fun with the system, and I'd certainly be willing to play it again.

 

[ExploderWizard]

My impression is that you can dial the complexity up or down, to a large extent. As for doing 'D&D-like', Dungeon Fantasy looks to be the shiznit. Also, I have a sneaking suspicion that most of what gets in the way of people adopting GURPS is, well, its name first of all, and the. . . 'configuration' of the system, I guess - not the way it actually plays - perhaps second. Doesn't do itself (or rather, its popularity) any major favours there. Shame, because it's got a lot going for it, including the best RPG supplements, overall.

I've had some fun with the system, and I'd certainly be willing to play it again.

One of the things it doesn't have going for it is a decent level of support. No adventures or supplemental products to support the major worldbooks, just more and more sourcebooks. Playing 2nd fiddle to Munchkin on the printing schedule doesn't impart a sense of support either.
[RANT] I waited forever for my copy of Thaumatology after several delays for Munchkin printing [ END RANT]

I do really like the system though.

 

[pawsplay]

In general, I found combat using the GURPS rules full-on was a horrid, tedious, confusing mess. It runs much more quickly and smoothly if you use only the basics.

It runs smoothly and quickly with all the bells and whistles, too, but don't drink from the firehose.

 

[DragoonLance]

In general, I found combat using the GURPS rules full-on was a horrid, tedious, confusing mess.

This. That and many other reasons that have mirrored many people's complaints of D&D 3e is why I am dragging my group away from GURPS into D&D 4e. I'm tired of building a big bad NPC for hours in the GUPRS character creation system for a PC to "one shot kill" with a master strike to the eye. I'm tired of characters that manage to be everywhere in the same combat (the biggest complainer about moving to a grid based combat happens to be that player...)

Basically as many other people has stated, the move to 4e D&D has made GMing fun again for me personally, and I think the players will really like it once they figure out they can do more than just hit the same monster until it goes down, or in some cases always stabbing for the eyes. I know my player than almost always plays a blademaster ranger type is excited about the powers such as "hit and run." It's what she always envisioned her character doing, while she generally ends up doing nothing in GURPS thanks to the magic/range heavy players and low hit points on monsters.

I can understand some people's need for "simulation" in RPG, but after GMing GURPS for years I think (especially in their 4e) the simulation is inherently flawed, which just makes it a different type of game for the players to try and manipulate. I would rather go with a system that is blatantly gamey but is far more balanced in the long run.

One of my other big gripes with GURPS is the lack of character development. Sure you can earn points, but this amounts to roughly 2x advantages or +2 stat (or buying off a disadvantage) in a YEAR OF PLAY (playing 4-6 hours every other weekend!) It's easier to build a new character instead, which was the same problem I had with Palladium systems. Sure it had leveling, but the gains were so minor as to be worthless when you could just build a far better lvl 1 character from a newer book.

Also, while GURPS has plenty of material available, most of it is background or so vague you really have to spend alot of time developing every session. As the kind of GM than is really bad at improv, this means that GURPS is a huge drain on my free time, as opposed to D&D where I can use the 4e monster manual or even the tons of 3e material (locations, dungeons, characters etc.) and then populate it with monsters that will be a challenge but not too tough or too easy, or build my own in about 10 minutes. I have the older GURPS monster books but the system has changed enough that I might as well rebuild them from scratch as GURPS 4e uses far different math for attacks and defence than the older material.

 

[underthumb]

I'm tired of building a big bad NPC for hours in the GUPRS character creation system for a PC to "one shot kill" with a master strike to the eye.

You can of course use damage resistance, or magic, or any other measure to make your baddies more tough and less vulnerable to insta-kills, so I guess I'm a little puzzled by this comment.

One of my other big gripes with GURPS is the lack of character development. Sure you can earn points, but this amounts to roughly 2x advantages or +2 stat (or buying off a disadvantage) in a YEAR OF PLAY (playing 4-6 hours every other weekend!)

I'm also puzzled by this comment as well. As the GM, you set the pace of development and determine how many character points your players get. So if it's too slow, you just advance them faster.

 

[CapnZapp]

Well, the GM sets the point value for starting characters. So if there aren't enough points, that has to do with the type of campaign you're playing, not with GURPS in particular. Super Hero games, for instance, regularly feature PCs with over 1000 points.

He wanted a well-rounded character, not a superhero.

In other words, just throwing more points at the problem does not make it go away.

 

[Tequila Sunrise]

Earlier editions of D&D tried to be something they were not. They told themselves sweet nothings like "hit points are believable if narrated really creatively" and "rolling only three specific traits make characters more realistic." Then 4e came, and D&D came out of the closet: "I'm here, and I'm a high fantasy over-the-top swashbuckling action game!"

Honesty is refreshing.