From 7 Action Types To Pathfinder 2's New 3 Action Economy

Morrus · Mar 7, 2018

Paizo's Jason Bulmahn talks about Pathfinder 2nd Edition's 3-Action Economy, where Pathfinder's seven action types are reduced to three standard actions plus a reaction.

"It's your turn. You get to take three actions. That's it. You want to move three times? Done. Instead you want to move once, draw your sword, and attack? No problem. How about attack three times? Go ahead (but you'll take an increasing penalty for each additional attack). With only a few notable exceptions, most things in the game now take one action to accomplish. Opening a door, drawing a weapon, reloading a crossbow, moving up to your speed, raising your shield, taking a guarded step, swinging your greataxe—all of these and much more take just one action to perform."

3 actions and one reaction. Most everything is one action, and you can repeat them as you wish. 3 moves, 3 attacks, 2 moves and an attack. Spells usually cost 2 actions, but some quick ones cost just 1 action.

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Charlaquin · Mar 7, 2018

I absolutely love this idea. I don't love going back to movement being an action instead of its own type of resource like in 5e, but I think the flexibility this allows is well worth the trade-off. There are just so many possibilities. With only a weapon, a shield, and movement, you get seven possible combinations of actions on your turn:

3 movements
2 movements, 1 attack
2 movements, raise shield
1 movement, 1 attack, raise shield
1 movement, 2 attacks
2 attacks, raise shield
3 attacks

And it only increases from there the more possible actions you can choose from. Throw in the possibility of drawing a potion from your pack and drinking it, or casting a spell, or trying to intimidate your opponents. There's just so much flexibility, I love it!

What I like most about this approach though, is the possibility of spells and maneuvers that get stronger the more actions you spend on them. Like the example in the first blog post, where each action you spend on Magic Missile gives you an extra missile. Or in the podcast, where they talked about the heal spell healing one target you touch with one action, one target within 30 feet with two actions, or each target within 30 feet with three actions. That's a really, really cool way to give spells and maneuvers some variability, and it makes for a lot of interesting decisions to be made every turn in exploration mode.

Reactions are really cool too. I love them in 5e, but I do sometimes feel they are a little under-utilized Part of the reason Polearm Master is such a good Feat is because it allows you to maximize your action economy by giving you a reliable way to use your Bonus Action and your Reaction every turn. I get the impression that PF2 is going to make better use of the design space Reactions open up. I love that raising your shield is an action, and that doing so not only gives you the option to use your Reaction to block some damage with your shield in response to an attack hitting you. And the action economy article made it sound like you'll also be able to Ready an Action to be used as a Reaction in response to a trigger you set up, just like in 5e, which I am thrilled about. This is my absolute favorite incarnation of delaying actions I've seen, so it's great to see PF2 adopting it as well.

I'm a little curious how dual-wielding will work. If going sword-and-board gives me the option of attacking one, two, or three times depending on if I raise my shield and/or move, what will the benefit of holding a second weapon instead of a shield be? Even more attacks? That seems like it could lead to lot of attacks per turn if so. It'll be interesting, for sure.

Charlaquin · Mar 7, 2018

Arilyn said:
The second attack is at minus five.

And presumably the third, if you can make it is at minus ten. Unless your weapon is... I forget the term they used for it. Swift? Something like that. At any rate, certain weapons only give you a cumulative minus two on consecutive attacks.

lyle.spade · Mar 7, 2018

Arilyn said:
The second attack is at minus five.
The 3 action economy cleans things up but may cause some other problems, like players constantly asking if something is an action or not. Think I'd have to give it a whirl before deciding if it's a worthwhile change.

Given PF's penchant for detail, I can only assume that there will be a long list of actions, and descriptors that help players and GMs determine what would constitute a single action versus something that'd take longer, like a typical spell.

Coriolis, from Modiphius/Free League, has a similar action economy, with everyone provided 3 Action Points in each combat round. Slow actions cost all three; normal ones two; and fast actions only one point. Aiming and firing is slow; a regular shot is normal; and firing from the hip (with a penalty) is a fast action. There are lists of examples of each, too. Reactions are handled differently, with them only available if you saved an AP from your last turn, which adds an interesting gambling-like dimension to combat.

Anyway, this sounds interesting and I will definitely download the PDFs for review.

werecorpse · Mar 7, 2018

I worry that it will be an element that encourages system mastery to min max leading to numerous action combinations being traps etc

vpuigdoller · Mar 7, 2018

In the glasscanon podcast i loved when the wizard casted. One action for each component. Verbal one action, somatic one action. The fact that there are spells with one component only (one action) allowed for two spells casted. Very dynamic I like it. Harder spells with verbal, somatic and material component will probably consume all three actions.

Charlaquin · Mar 7, 2018

vpuigdoller said:
In the glasscanon podcast i loved when the wizard casted. One action for each component. Verbal one action, somatic one action. The fact that there are spells with one component only (one action) allowed for two spells casted. Very dynamic I like it. Harder spells with verbal, somatic and material component will probably consume all three actions.

And with those one-action spells, you can choose between casting two such spells and moving, or one of them, moving, and attacking something with a weapon, casting one such spell and a regular two-action spell... I am loving all the possible combinations!

barasawa · Mar 7, 2018

It could be a definite plus, but I'd rather see the real thing than just going off on a one sentence explanation with some vague combination examples.

Are they reducing the Ancient Dragon Horde sized load of statuses as well?

Charlaquin · Mar 7, 2018

barasawa said:
It could be a definite plus, but I'd rather see the real thing than just going off on a one sentence explanation with some vague combination examples.

Did you listen to the podcast? They have a couple combat encounters, so you can hear the new economy in action.