From the Ground Up - Building a Game Company

[Eosin the Red]

they appeared originally in the Silven.com forums where you can also find a free preview of Here there be Monsters! Quillion's Quill #19: Pencil Pushers Publishing

Do yourself a favor and go read the creation myth of the Taurians. It is a fine example of the re-imagination of mythology and FRPGs that I have been speaking about.

Those are some bold titles

 

[Qwillion]

well your the one leaping in without his pants on!

we might as well have bold titles

 

[philreed]

Changing (1) to read, "Make $500 profit with the first product and invest that money back into the company"...now THAT seems to lead to (2). IMHO, of course. I'm not a business person.

You may not be a business person but that's exactly what I did. My PDF sales have grown from about $200/month to about $2,000/month in about 18 months. By starting with nothing more than my time I was able to build on the sales of each product until I had generated enough to invest in purchasing an older game line. I then tripled that investment.

Spending $1,000+ on artwork for a PDF seems a bit foolish to me. There are so many resources out there for artwork that would cost much less and there's always the option of partnering with an artist.

I do find this thread very interesting.

 

[MEG Hal]

You may not be a business person but that's exactly what I did. My PDF sales have grown from about $200/month to about $2,000/month in about 18 months. By starting with nothing more than my time I was able to build on the sales of each product until I had generated enough to invest in purchasing an older game line. I then tripled that investment.

Spending $1,000+ on artwork for a PDF seems a bit foolish to me. There are so many resources out there for artwork that would cost much less and there's always the option of partnering with an artist.

I do find this thread very interesting.

Phil is a great story about pdf success. As for $1000+ on art, way too much. Also if you need to see a NDA drop me a line and I will send you a copy of mine.

Keep posting!

 

[Qwillion]

Yes no paying artist more than you pay the writers :>

 

[Eosin the Red]

Spending $1,000+ on artwork for a PDF seems a bit foolish to me. There are so many resources out there for artwork that would cost much less and there's always the option of partnering with an artist.

I do find this thread very interesting.

Appreciate the comments Phil.

I figure that history will judge me somewhere between foolish and genius but then it will do the same for most of us. Those numbers are generalizations and not specifically for one project or one use art.

The second point is that the lowest level of success is that I do something that I will make me proud to have my name on. If it goes on to make money bully for me (and Steve). This is not my livelihood, nor will writing game material ever be a means of income for me in all likelihood. I need to define a game world and make it bite while detailing a module, a setting book, and a source book – clip art could get me the basic sales but it won’t convey the setting. I also hope to do more than PDF but that remains to be seen.

Partnering with an artist would be a dream for me.

Phil is a great story about pdf success. As for $1000+ on art, way too much. Also if you need to see a NDA drop me a line and I will send you a copy of mine.

Keep posting!

Thanks Hal. I will snag your NDA and compare it to the one I have. It think the art is in the ballpark price range of what we discussed on the phone. I just added a little something special in there.

Yes no paying artist more than you pay the writers :>

I think you better get used to it Steve. Artists make allot more than the writers and bigger the name, the greater the disparity. Want to guess what Lockwood, Brom, or T. Nielsen charge for a cover? I bet it is more than any writer makes for 32 pages. The lowest rung of Pro Painter gets $200 to $500 for a cover [mind you, these guys are still pro], which takes substantially less time to do than 32 pages of writing [I read once that WotC considered each writer to be capable of a 32 page module unit per month].

Speaking of art. Wow, has 3P had a week full of problems in that department. Some things are private so this will just be a footnote – remember that compassion and understanding comes before any project.

Finances are kicking my hind end. Badly. Some things like legal and accounting are being delayed. All the business people out there are screaming! NO!! However, no product means no cash flow, and no cash flow means that the legal and accounting fees were for nothing. I chalk most of this up to my outrageous medical bills…..I like to brag about how expensive it is to have a freaky heart problem. A little perspective for you: I have good insurance after all, I am technically faculty at the University of Oklahoma. I am a RN, father of 3.5, own a home and have one newer car for the wife and one clunker for me. Middle America. In 3 months, I have paid more than my income for the same period in medical bills. Ouch. It is part of the whole reason that I am doing this though.

You know that stupid question what would you do if the DR told you that you were dying? I know. They were wrong but the initial diagnosis was pretty darn grim and it ruined my massive PbeM Birthright game, hard to worry bout the ole PbeM when you are figuring out how old your kids might be when you go and what you taught them. I have always been a bit of a chicken when it came to sticking my neck out personally on a non-physical level [I can run into burning buildings and confront an armed man who wants to kill my patient so it is not that kind of fear]. For some people, it is better to dream of being someone like Robert Jordan or Steven Spielburg than to actually attempt to live that dream. You know – I know you do. The guys will always talk you up. They will say, “Dude, your stuff is as good as anything out there.” As long as you never try, the dream is still possible but the moment you try and fail then everyone knows it. No one can say – “Dude….” Reality has demonstrated that you tried and most likely failed. It is the same thing for basketball dreams, for music players and for all of the other people in this world who fear failure while striving for a dream more than they fear never realizing it. If you never try, you can still hold on to the secret dream.

I am facing this specter now. Part of me is terrified of failure. Terrified that it will crush the dream. A hard thing to wrestle with when you are trying to write. I also have no one to blame….that is a real bear. ;P If someone else could share part of the blame it would be easier to point a finger and say, “It is hard to soar like an eagle while surrounded by turkeys.”

Now, back to the real story. I am still working on peripheral issues, getting the NDA done, getting the writing guide up, getting the setting bible hammered out, writing stuff to get Steve in place and generally avoiding my real work. Actually, the setting stuff is my real work so I don’t feel bad about that.

I have some thought that I would like to go over on some different vehicles for publishing but that will have to wait for tomorrow.

 

[jgbrowning]

Eventually, we all fail, Eosin the Red. Do your best, that's the best you can do. And if you don't do your best, that's the best you wanted to do. Our quality is measured by how we deal with it.

IMHO,

joe b.

 

[Qwillion]

We are always thankful of everyone's support. I am kind of a similar finacial boat, I lost my job, car, licence, wife, and house awile back. I was just getting back on my feat when Eosin said hey come be my partner, I know Eosin, I know how good he really is, I could never turn that down. Hell I have had people tell me that my stuff was very good but, I never had the motivation to act on my dream, I have been doing stuff for Silven and a few other companies(enkwell, arms &armor 3.5, Soul Harvest II). It has made given me the dicipline to become a much better writer (not to mention David Paul our editor does such an amazing job.)

No matter what. I am here as long as Eosin wants me.

Now back to work on Here there be Monsters and Freestyle campaigning

Oh and again thanks for your support

 

[Guillaume]

Hey guys, I've been following your progress. I find it very stimulating. Good luck with your venture and keep this thread going. It's a gold mine for information.

 

[Qwillion]

Well with everything going on in the world I took a week off from P3.

I have moved everything from my storage unit into my new house (I am dead poor) but looks like other than just the regular bills I will be be out of the whole and on solid ground in two weeks.

I gamed yeasterday, and it was the first game where I was not playtesting something, boy when you set on design, sometimes you forget why you enjoy this so much.

So now fully refreshed with batteries recharged I am looking over stuff that I did the week before (check out Prestige Production III nothing new in all the world at the D20 section of silven.com and Quillion's Quill: Questspire Feats in the Silven Trumpeter)

I got to look at a piece of artwork done by my friend Amanda Roth is doing for Freestyle Campaigning. She did the skeleton of the new monster I was introducing and had it attacking the giant eagles from lord of the rings (because eagles solve everything she says)

I feel great, I hope everyone else does too, I have a lot in mind for what is going to do this week talk to you all later