Frostburn at DriveThruRPG

[Heyoka_James]

I believe the 30% is pretty comparable to RPGnow (might be 25% there, don't remember for sure).

Gold members for RPGNow is 25% of sale price. And, trust me, given the sales of PDFs that 5% can mean a BIG difference.

 

[GSHamster]

Keep in mind that the following is pure speculation. I have no idea what WotC is really up to.

I don't think that WotC is researching the financial viability of PDFs. We all know that their PDF sales will be nowhere near that of their print sales.

There are basically 3 reasons a consumer would purchase PDFs:

1. They are priced cheaper than print books.

2. They are available earlier than print books.

3. They are (possibly) in a more convenient format. Especially if your group or DM uses a laptop at the gaming table.

I think that WotC is measuring how large Group 3 is. How many people, all other things being equal, prefer the electronic format itself to hardcopies?

Of course, to do this experiment properly, they need to fix all the other variables. Hence using MSRP. Same thing with DRM. A non-DRM copy would quickly end up on the darknet, and compromise the experiment.

Personally, I think that the vast majority of gamers would rather have print books than PDF. But I can see that if the DM brought a laptop to the gaming sessions, she might prefer PDF to print, especially if she used a lot of books. I'm just not sure how many of them are out there.

 

[Crothian]

There is a fourth reason. There are gamers in countries and places that getting physical books is tough if not impossible.

 

[Cergorach]

There is a fourth reason. There are gamers in countries and places that getting physical books is tough if not impossible.

I would say that those same people will have a problem buying these electronic books, certain credit cards from certain countries are not accepted, nor are they able to get a paypall account...

3. They are (possibly) in a more convenient format. Especially if your group or DM uses a laptop at the gaming table.

I think your right with option 3 being the reason WotC is doing this experiment. I'm also confident that putting up Frostburn on DTRPG is nothing but 'free' money for WotC. At $35 no one is buying an electronic copy instead of a physical copy, so i think that there are no lost book sales, i think that there are (a lot) more people like me that prefer to also have an electronic copy of a book. Even if they only selll 100 copies, that's still $2500 that's going straight into WotC's pocket. They have to sell 250 physical books to get the same amount of money.

I have the right, when i buy the book, to 'own' the content (in whatever form that may be). The problem is that i don't like scanning in my own books, OCRing them, etc. That's long, hard, booring work. I'm paying DTRPG for that work, not for the content (i already have that).

 

[cjdc1973]

The bootlegged scanned versions of the Frostburn and Monster Manual III books hit the various warz channels today. It took only 10 days from product release to a bootleg scan showing up. Both scans are ~55MB in size, fairly avergae quality, with no OCR and no search features. They do both contains bookmarked tabled of contents to allow searching for chapters and sub-sections. Everyone on the various IRC channels and alt.binaries.e-book.rpg is in a ferenzy of downloading both books at the moment.

Jester

 

[Conaill]

A little tidbit from the thread on wizards.com:

Since we offered Frostburn as a DRM eBook online, we’ve had a number of questions (here and in other fora) from gamers about the decision. In particular, many people have concerns about the DRM format, and about the fact that the eBook format has the same MSRP as the physical book. There have been a million other comments and questions--good and bad--but since those two issues seem to be the biggest, they’re what I’m going to tackle here.

The MSRP: The problem most people have with the price seems to be that eBooks are not "worth as much" as physical books. If that’s true for you, by all means continue to purchase physical books at your local game store (or wherever you shop for D&D). We’re not trying to convert you into an eBook user if you don’t want to be; I myself will likely stick with physical books around the gaming table for the time being.

Some people, however, feel that the eBook format offers a lot of advantages over physical books. It’s easier to carry 20 books in a laptop than to lug a 30-pound bookbag around, for example. eBooks are bookmarked and easily searchable. And you can cut and paste text out of the eBook (in limited amounts) if, for example, you want to paste a monster’s stat block into the adventure you’re preparing, or want to add the text of a feat description to your character sheet.

eBooks cost less to manufacture than physical books, that’s true. But the bulk of the value of a D&D product--and the bulk of our cost in making it--isn’t the paper, ink, and glue of the physical product. It’s the great content--the art, the ideas, the writing, the game mechanics, and so on. That’s what you’re really paying for when you buy a D&D product, and that’s what generates the real cost for us.

Finally, we value everyone who has helped make D&D a success over the years, and that "everyone" includes not just gamers but the game store owners who have supported D&D and helped it grow for three decades. We could always make a few more bucks by cutting out the middleman and selling directly to you--that’s true of physical books as well as eBooks. But we aren’t going to undercut the businesses that have helped us get where we are today--the businesses that probably helped you first get into gaming, and maybe continue to be a place where you find games, meet other gamers, and keep up with what’s going on in D&D. These game, hobby, and book stores are our bread and butter, and we’re not going to operate a cut-rate side business at their expense. If that means that we sell a few less copies of the eBook, so be it.

Please don’t think of an eBook as an el cheapo alternative to other formats. If the only reason you want to buy a PDF is to save a few bucks, this offering isn’t for you. There are plenty of places where you can buy D&D products at below MSRP; feel free to take your money there. If, on the other hand, you see more utility in a PDF than in a paper product, I think you’ll find that Frostburn is just as valuable in eBook form as it is as a physical book--and worth every penny.

The DRM Format: Sorry to be a little long-winded on the MSRP issue, but it’s a complex issue and there’s a lot to say. This one should be easier (and shorter).

There’s a lot of false information on the net about secure eBooks. Some people will tell you that you can’t use your DRM product unless you’re connected to the internet, or that you can’t print it, or that you can’t use it on more than one computer, or that you can’t make back ups of it, or that Adobe Reader is spyware, and on and on. Frankly, that’s a bunch of baloney, propogated mostly be people who’ve never actually tried a DRM eBook.

Here’s the scoop: If you have a copy of Adobe Reader (and who doesn’t?), you simply register it with Adobe. (Go to Tools-->eBook Web Services-->Adobe DRM Activator in Adobe Reader.) It takes three minutes, tops. Once you do that, you can use any DRM eBook you purchase just as if it were a regular PDF. You can read the eBook on other computers you own, as long as you register Adobe Reader on that machine too. Other people can’t read the eBooks you purchased, and you can’t read theirs, but other than that there’s no difference between a DRM eBook and any other PDF. If you don’t believe me, I invite to you go to DriveThruRPG.com, download one of their free products, and give it a spin. Doesn’t cost you a dime.

-----

I think my comments here address the majority of questions that have been raised--if not, feel free to post your comments. Again, the bottom line is this: If you don’t think the eBook is a good deal, don’t buy it. We won’t be offended--honest! If you like the idea of eBook D&D products, give it a shot. You won’t get any special discount, but you will get a great book in a really useful format.

 

[jgbrowning]

DRM and its problems: I want a list.

The DRM Format: Sorry to be a little long-winded on the MSRP issue, but it’s a complex issue and there’s a lot to say. This one should be easier (and shorter).

There’s a lot of false information on the net about secure eBooks. Some people will tell you that you can’t use your DRM product unless you’re connected to the internet, or that you can’t print it, or that you can’t use it on more than one computer, or that you can’t make back ups of it, or that Adobe Reader is spyware, and on and on. Frankly, that’s a bunch of baloney, propogated mostly be people who’ve never actually tried a DRM eBook.

Here’s the scoop: If you have a copy of Adobe Reader (and who doesn’t?), you simply register it with Adobe. (Go to Tools-->eBook Web Services-->Adobe DRM Activator in Adobe Reader.) It takes three minutes, tops. Once you do that, you can use any DRM eBook you purchase just as if it were a regular PDF. You can read the eBook on other computers you own, as long as you register Adobe Reader on that machine too. Other people can’t read the eBooks you purchased, and you can’t read theirs, but other than that there’s no difference between a DRM eBook and any other PDF. If you don’t believe me, I invite to you go to DriveThruRPG.com, download one of their free products, and give it a spin. Doesn’t cost you a dime.

It's statements like this that will lead to a lot of headache. DRM is not that simple and it has many drawbacks. Not telling the customers up-front about exactly what they can't do in compared to real PDF functionality while telling them they "can use any DRM eBook you purchase just as if it were a regular PDF" is misinformed at best and deceptive at worst.

Just come clean guys and argue the real position. Tell everyone exactly what DRM takes away and let the buyer make an informed decision. Tell the people who are paying you for your work that you don't trust them so you're going to limit what they can do because you think they might be pirates. Tell the people who are paying you for the work that they actually MUST become pirates to use your work "just as if it were a regular PDF". Those of us who dislike DRM are not looneys. We don't dislike it just to dislike it. It it worked "just as if it were a regular PDF" there would be a lot less complaint about it.

OK, lets make a list of the problems with DRM

Here's off the top of my head and correct me if I'm wrong please.

1. No usibility on anything but reader 6.0 which doesn't support Linux and XXXXX operating systems. (please fill in the XXXXX if there's anymore).
2. No legal printing at Kinkos.
3. You can only register up to 6 computers.
4. Very limited cut at past (I think 10 times in 10 days? Please correct me if wrong).
5. Your computer must connect to the internet to register. You cannot use DRM files on computers you don't connect to the internet on.
6. DRM doesn't work on a windows ce pda.

I'm sure there's more I'm forgetting so help me out. What I'd like to do is present the list of concerns and see if Mr. Ryan will address each one.

joe b.

 

[Psion]

There’s a lot of false information on the net about secure eBooks. Some people will tell you that you can’t use your DRM product unless you’re connected to the internet, or that you can’t print it, or that you can’t use it on more than one computer, or that you can’t make back ups of it, or that Adobe Reader is spyware, and on and on. Frankly, that’s a bunch of baloney, propogated mostly be people who’ve never actually tried a DRM eBook.

Ah... political season must be here, because this reads just like a campaign ad. Candidates NEVER bring up authentic issues with their platforms. Just bring up strawmen versions in the hopes that nobody will notice that those aren't the real criticisms.

Like, in this case, there certain is a limitation to the time you can use a DRM if you ever upgrade and don't have perfect faith that Adobe is going to see fit let you use it on a new computer.

You certainly cannot use it on a computer that does not connect to the internet at some time or which has a certain port blocked in the firewall (and for some people, using works lan is the only practical place to download.) If you use a thumb drive to put stuff on a second or home computer, you are SOL.

You can print it, but getting a copy shop to print it requires some hoop jumping.

Adobe reader may not be spyware, but it is the only DRM enabled platform and given their track record, I have no reason to beleive that future upgrades of their product are going to be in my best interest.

 

[Psion]

It it worked "just as if it were a regular PDF" there would be a lot less complaint about it.

You are the wind beneath my wings.

 

[Cergorach]

1. No usibility on anything but reader 6.0 which doesn't support Linux and XXXXX operating systems. (please fill in the XXXXX if there's anymore).
2. No legal printing at Kinkos.
3. You can only register up to 6 computers.
4. Very limited cut at past (I think 10 times in 10 days? Please correct me if wrong).

1. It's even worse, it doesn't work on a windows ce pda.
2. How do you figure that? You are allowed to register any computer, just register a computer at kinko's, then your fine with printing. Why is this illegal?
3. You can only register 6 computers at the same time, you can deregister computers as well (you'll have to call adobe though).
4. Depends on the publisher, Monte's stuff and Necro's stuff has no copy/paste limitations. It's even possible to limit printing (to not allowing prining). But the same can be done with a 'normal' pdf. pdf =! the ability to print/copy/paste.